A question about : Spooked by Home Buyer's Report and searches
Hi All,
We've (wife & I) had an offer accepted on a three-bedroom house in our town and have also accepted an offer on our two-bedroom flat.
We are motivated to upsize now as our town is becoming increasingly expensive (a three-bed is now 300k+ compared to 180-220k three years ago) and think it's unlikely that we'll be able to afford a house here in another year or two. We're 30 minutes out of Kings Cross, there's nowhere to build new homes and we're attracting buyers from other commuter towns (such as St. Albans) who are selling up and cashing in. I can't see how prices will remain at any kind of reasonable level.
Anyway, we (and everyone else in the chain) have instructed solicitors to start the paperwork etc. The searches have revealed that the house is in a high flood risk area, it's on potentially contaminated land and potentially unstable land. We've been trying to find out what buildings insurance will cost us, and the best we've got is just over Ј500 per year. All of the others came in at Ј150 per month, or were unwilling to insure.
We've also received, I believe, a pretty damning Home Buyer's Report. Just to put things into perspective, the house was built in 1906 and we were expecting some issues, but there are others which we were completely unprepared for. Here's a quick summary of the problems and the level of priority according to the report:
High levels of damp on party wall (high priority and requires immediate attention) - we expected this. Also some minor cracks and no evidence of the type of damp course.
Some cracked tiles and a high build up of moss (medium priority) - we expected this.
Windows are old and need replacing (medium priority) - we expected this.
Distortion of internal walls and high damp reading. Report advises that a complete replastering of internal walls will be needed (high priority) - half expected some damp, but did not realise it would be this bad.
Chimney brest has been removed and there is inadequate support for the remaining structure (high priority and will require LA approval)
Wiring underneath loft insulation (high priority as it's a fire hazard). Wiring hasn't been tested either.
Cold water tank does not meet standards and should be upgraded (medium priority)
Very old gas boiler (heating) and no evidence of servicing (high priority) - we spotted this when we looked around and planned to replace it anyway.
Very old hot water boiler in the loft has evidence of leakage and needs to be replaced (high priority).
Drainage is partially blocked and one of the inspection chambers has been built over with an extension. Report advises that investigation and remedial work is expensive (high priority).
We know it's a victorian property and we need to allow for some problems, but is it unreasonable to think that this is too much? We hoped we'd have about 6k in saving to do some work when we moved in, but clearly this is not going to get us very far. Our priorities were to replace the boiler and the bay window (in wood), then do the rest of the windows as we get the money. We then planned to replace the bathroom (dated, but fine), kitchin, and install a woodburning stove and fake chimney brest. All of this is before getting to soft furnishings and personal touches. Some of this might sound unnecessary, but what's the point of a victorian house if you're not going to restore some of the features?
Financially, we are not poor and the budget shows that we'll have about Ј900 a month left over. However, we're hoping to make a little Pookie, which will of course mean a reduced income for a period and increased outgoings. We'll also need a modest family car (Mrs Pookie is not keen on 3 doors). Once you factor in the likelihood of higher interest rates when the fixed deal ends in 5 years, it's looking likely that there won't be much left over to do the improvements. We're not especially impatiant, but at the same time we don't see the point buying a house if it'll take us 10 years to get it to how we want it, especially as we'd like to move up north in 10-15 years.
We're now getting to the point where we are starting to talk ourselves out of it, but we really wanted to get some views on:
Were our expectations of the house unreasonable?
Will we be buying a house full of stress, expense and headaches?
What are the implications if we pull out at this stage? My assumption is we will need to pay the solicitors for the work they have done so far.
To add to the stress, both the solicitor and the estage agent are incredibly rude. We know this is normal, but we could do without it. The EA was really rude to my wife earlier when there was the slightest hint that we were unhappy with the seach and survey results.
We'd also feel really guilty about messing up the chain. Our buyer is an FTB and really loves our flat, and I expect she's lose what she has paid the solicitors so far. Would we be obliged to contribute towards her losses?
Sorry - bit of an essay and lots of question. Really grateful for any advice.
Best answers:
- It sounds like you expected a lot of the issues that were flagged up anyway? So is there really a big problem?
Having said that don't let anyone guilt trip or bully you into proceeding if you have serious doubts. It's the EA's job to keep the sale on track come what may, because he is working for the seller. - Some of the issues we expected and budgeted for. The ones we didn't are what is concerning us, on top of the failed searches. We had no idea about the flood risk and the cost of that insurance until it came up. We're also concerned about any hidden costs of pulling out - we're fully prepared to accept the solicitor's costs so far, but hope we've not overlooked anything.
The same EA sold our flat and will make a tidy sum on it. They're working for us too! - ask the neighbours about flooding they will tell you if the have suffered losses in last few years
- High levels of damp on party wall (high priority and requires immediate attention) - we expected this. Also some minor cracks and no evidence of the type of damp course.
- Some cracked tiles and a high build up of moss (medium priority) - we expected this.
- Windows are old and need replacing (medium priority) - we expected this.
- Distortion of internal walls and high damp reading. Report advises that a complete replastering of internal walls will be needed (high priority) - half expected some damp, but did not realise it would be this bad.
- Chimney brest has been removed and there is inadequate support for the remaining structure (high priority and will require LA approval)
- Wiring underneath loft insulation (high priority as it's a fire hazard). Wiring hasn't been tested either.
- Cold water tank does not meet standards and should be upgraded (medium priority)
- Very old gas boiler (heating) and no evidence of servicing (high priority) - we spotted this when we looked around and planned to replace it anyway.
- Very old hot water boiler in the loft has evidence of leakage and needs to be replaced (high priority).
- Drainage is partially blocked and one of the inspection chambers has been built over with an extension. Report advises that investigation and remedial work is expensive (high priority).
- The windows are the old style aluminium ones. They're grey and go into wooden frames - old and ugly in the extreme. If the windows were already wooden and needed some TLC then I would do that myself no problem.
Re flooding: The sellers have told us that it hasn't happened in the 30 years they have lived there. I'm personally not worried about the risk, but the insurance premiums are a bit spicy.
I also forgot to mention that the extension has a flat felt roof. The report advises some deterioration and that it should be upgraded when the time comes. - Man, there is some dodgy advice here.
A house like this (by the sounds of it) coul dpotentially be a massive drain on your cash and resolve to deal with the problems which may ensue after moving in. Only then will you be "genuinely" aware of what sort of house it is you're getting into. Reports and surveys go so far yes, but they don't always uncover everything there is to learn about a property.
If you have a sound ability to deal with some of th ework yourselves, then fine, give it a go. But....if you are not DIY'ers or have no knowledge of buildings or construction to any degree whatsoever, then I would urge caution, and lots of it.
Houses like this one (again, only by the description provided) can be hugely probelmatic in many ways. It's all very well for people to suggest a bit of wonky this and that is what "character" is all about, but it isn''t. Character it exactly that, "character". It suggests age, history and a record of the past, most often in features or methods employed of building and embellishing properties in times gone by, and, has nothing to do with defective construction or potentially hazardous conditions. Damp can be any number of situations, from minor to very very serious. Even when it's simply rectified it can be expensive, especially if it's extensive throughout the ground floor.
I could go on, but I won't.
I would trust your own judgement, or at least, ask the opinions of people in trades on another website.
Good luck with whatever you decide. - The bottom line here is that it is an old property which needs work. You knew/know that, and from your posts seem to be reasonable savvy about building, have some budget set aside, and are not averse to getting jobs done.
The issue then is how much you love/want ths property, and exactly how much time and money are you prepared to put in. And/or what degree of discomfort (damp? drafty windows?) are you prepared to put up with before you get round to fixing everything.
Flood searches are pretty broad sweep. If property has not flooded for 30 years you're pretty safe. A bit of further checking (reports of floods in local papers? Chat with the local publican? Corner shop owner?) will further put your mind at ease. Insurance may be higher, but as long as you can answer the quesion "Has the property ever flooded?" with "No." it should not be too bad.
Damp is an issue, but mostly it's about finding the cause (ring the surveyor!). 9 x out of 10 it is cheap to fix: leaking roof (you already know you need to fix tiles!); simple repairs to gutters/downpipes; high external ground level needs dropping; blocked drain; maybe pointing (cement between bricks). Or maybe ventilation and over-use of drying clothes indoors etc. Once you fix the cause, the damp will dry. It is rare you need a new DPC or these 'injection' solutions.
If the existing damp is extensive and has caused damage to wood or plaster, that can be costly to strip back and renew, but that is rare too, and tends to be obvious to the eye and nose. If the damp was only diagnosed by a meter reading, it is not likely to be that bad.
Wiring, boiler, water tank, old gas boiler (remove) and tiles are all either petty (ignore) or simple/cheap to fix.
Only issue to me is the unsupported chimney. Done how long ago? (30 years and still not collapsed?) or 6 months with no Building Regs certification? 2 very different scenarios! You could pay a structural engineer Ј150 to look just at that.
Drainsblocked how? As in water is backing up out of the loo/into the garden, or just he spotted some cr*p when he lifted the drain cover. Ј20- 30 will buy you a set of rods which will sort it and last you a lifetime. -
The bottom line here is that it is an old property which needs work. You knew/know that, and from your posts seem to be reasonable savvy about building, have some budget set aside, and are not averse to getting jobs done.
OP has already said they may have Ј6K... not a lot going to get sorted on that and it'll soon disappear.
The issue then is how much you love/want ths property, and exactly how much time and money are you prepared to put in. And/or what degree of discomfort (damp? drafty windows?) are you prepared to put up with before you get round to fixing everything.
Again, how much anyone is willing to put in is different to how much they "have" to put in. If you ain't got it, you can't use it.
Flood searches are pretty broad sweep. If property has not flooded for 30 years you're pretty safe. A bit of further checking (reports of floods in local papers? Chat with the local publican? Corner shop owner?) will further put your mind at ease. Insurance may be higher, but as long as you can answer the quesion "Has the property ever flooded?" with "No." it should not be too bad.
That's fair advice and should at least give some idea of how much potential risk there may be.
Damp is an issue, but mostly it's about finding the cause (ring the surveyor!). 9 x out of 10 it is cheap to fix: leaking roof (you already know you need to fix tiles!); simple repairs to gutters/downpipes; high external ground level needs dropping; blocked drain; maybe pointing (cement between bricks). Or maybe ventilation and over-use of drying clothes indoors etc. Once you fix the cause, the damp will dry. It is rare you need a new DPC or these 'injection' solutions.
Wouldn't agree with this at all. Damp can be significant and costly to resolve. OP states damp on party wall. That is most certainly not going to be high externior ground levels is it, or issues with guttering. More likely to be lack of pysical barrier to moisture rising from ground, and that is a different ball game altogether. Could be a cheap fix, could be costly. Even surveyor claims this to be high priority.
If the existing damp is extensive and has caused damage to wood or plaster, that can be costly to strip back and renew, but that is rare too, and tends to be obvious to the eye and nose. If the damp was only diagnosed by a meter reading, it is not likely to be that bad.
Stripping back plaster means strip back to brick, so means it needs to be roughed and skimmed up to 1.2 metres. Follow with new skirting and decorating, flooring and it soon adds up, especially when you only have an immediate Ј6K to spend. How many places does this need to be done too.???... As it can appear to be just one area and then turn into numerous areas quite easily.
Wiring, boiler, water tank, old gas boiler (remove) and tiles are all either petty (ignore) or simple/cheap to fix.
What.???... A new boiler at the cheapest is going to be Ј500 to Ј600 plus fitting and any other consumables such as fluekits pipework etc etc. Not cheap at all. Furthermore, wiring can be Ј2500 to Ј3000 easily if the whole house requires wiring. Then, you are into having to repair areas where the old has been stripped out and new installed. Yeh, water tanks are no big deal, but there's still a cost of a few Ј100 to give to it, unless you are able to sort it yourself.
Only issue to me is the unsupported chimney. Done how long ago? (30 years and still not collapsed?) or 6 months with no Building Regs certification? 2 very different scenarios! You could pay a structural engineer Ј150 to look just at that.
This is a fair assumtion, but, if it's been there for 30 years or 300 years and it's potentially a risk, then it requires fixing and soon as too. It may well seem less pressing if it's not given in all that time, but if there is a structural problem, it could become worse or deadly at any time. worse means potentially more cost to sort it, deadly means potentially game over..
Drainsblocked how? As in water is backing up out of the loo/into the garden, or just he spotted some cr*p when he lifted the drain cover. Ј20- 30 will buy you a set of rods which will sort it and last you a lifetime.
Problem drains can be an absolute nightmare, but, can also be rodded and cleared within minutes. It's tricky to know without proper investigation, but, it's perhaps enough to say that these are services in a house that should work well almost always. It would worry me to think of buying a place that had issues in that regard from the off, and, is just another problem to add to a very long and serious list of things requiring attention.
All the above is without even mentioning the potentially unstable and hazardous / contaminated ground.
Ask yourself this.... Would you buy it.? - Thanks for your help everyone and sorry I didn't come back to update sooner.
We've pulled out.
'high levels of damp' is meaningless unless surveyor says what and where the damp is. Damp readings with a damp meter are meaningless. If it's penetrating damp it may be from the roof, which is what you'd expect if there is some work needing done on the roof.
What's actually wrong with them and why do they need replacing? A few rotty patches can be cut out and a new piece of wood set in, then prime and repaint.
Again, damp readings are meaningless. Damp meters aren't intended for walls and are calibrated for measuring moisture content in wood. Are the walls structurally stable? Slightly wonky plastering is part of the charm of older houses.
Immediate priority, but depending what/where has been removed is not necessarily that expensive a job.
Wiring underneath loft insulation, if it's modern, is not a fire hazard for ordinary lighting circuits which are what you would most likely find in a loft as the cable is already generously sized. It is a problem if you have an electric shower where the cable size may already be borderline or undersized.
It hasn't got a lid on it then. You may have a dead pigeon in it.
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The extension should have building regs approval which would have covered the drains, either rerouting or fitting a double seal inspection cover in the extension floor. Investigation is not expensive - you look under the extension floor (if it's timber) or shove a CCTV camera down the drain from the next chamber along.
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