Advice about dismissal

A question about : Advice about dismissal

My husband was at work and got a phone call from one of his directors saying they wanted to speak to him.

When they met up, he was told there were complaints made against him and some accusations of mismanagement and he was told he had 2 choices: to resign or take a supsension. Hubby refused to resign because he thinks he is being unfairly treated in the allegations and he told them to investigate as he has nothing to hide.

He is currently suspended pending investigation and a outcome hearing. On trawling through the masses of info on the net I discovered that he should have had a letter outlining the accusations and been allowed a witness at the interview/meeting. Is this correct? have they gone about it the wrong way and can someone PLEASE tell me if we have a leg to stand on?

I am just so worried about money, particularly the mortgage and really need some advice.

Best answers:

• Hi ,
  There is a strict code of practice that employers MUST follow.I would suggest that you phone ACAS for advice they are very helpfull. I would also suggest that you keep a record of anything that you feel is relevant, dates times etc as these may be very important. I would advise that hubby ensures that at any further meetigs he has a work colleague or union rep with him to be able to substantiate what is said, ensure that someone is there to take notes and that if there is that hubby and rep read and sign them as a true version of what happened/said. I would also suggest that hubby asks for, if he does not have, a copy of the companies disciplinary procedures. They must meet the minimum procedures laid down by ACAS so read them fully.
  Stick to your rights and don't be threatened by management and ensure you have witnesses to all that happens.
  Let us know how it goes.
  I assume that hubby has been suspended on FULL pay.
• Hi Amber,
  Horrible situation - clearly the directors are either unaware of due process or just trying to bounce your husband into accepting their cut-down version.
  Some excellent advice already from burny and mswannabe. Your DH should obtain a copy of the company disciplinary procedure asap and start a diary of what has been said to him and when, including the pressure he was put under to resign. He should compare the process so far with the company procedure to pick out any deficiencies and catalogue them.
  He should also ask for the allegations against him to be put in writing so he can plan his defence. He should do this in writing, maybe by e-mail as an e-mail response may be useful evidence later if things go awry. Once he has the allegations, your DH should think about any witnesses who may be willing to speak on his behalf. He should also be given the chance to give his side of the story as part of the investigation, though it sounds like this may not be on their radar. As others have said, he should ensure he is accompanied at any meetings by a trade union rep or work colleague, to act as a witness, keep notes and give moral support at least.
  Hopefully, the facts will emerge, the directors will see reason and this will all blow over. There is however a chance that your DH's employers are for whatever reason intent on dismissal at all costs - after all, they may see dismissal as a cheap alternative to redundancy. In that case, recording what they do and don't do will be even more important if your DH decides to take it to an employment tribunal. It may end up costing them more than they bargained for - even if it doesn't go all the way, they are likely to end up settling before the ET given the procedural mess they have got themselves into.
  Even if it all turns out OK, your DH may wish to take the opportunity to move on when he can - there is nothing worse than a trigger happy employer, and this sort of thing can affect underlying trust whatever the official outcome.
  Good luck to you both - I know how stressful it is for you - make sure your DH keeps calm, and hope it gets sorted soon.
• In a tribunal it almost always comes down to what is fair and reasonable, sounds like they havent been either, you husband would win a claim hands down, go straight for the companys juggular then get a new employer......
• First of all, thank you to everyone who has taken the time to reply, I really appreciate it.
  Burny - Yes, he has been suspended on full pay for now. There is no union, but he has a good friend in the same line of work (higher up) who is going to help him and attend the meetings with him. I can't find a copy of his contract, going to try and get one of the other guys' and check the procedures if we can.
  mswannabe - Thanks for that link. From what I have read they certainly haven't followed the correct procedures. In fact, they have completely skipped step one of the procedure and gone straight to step 2 without letting hubby have someone present. The company seems to have a habit of being able to get rid of people on a whim, and no one bothers to argue or fight back.
  Liz - Hubby is sitting right now writing down as much as he can think of. He has got phone numbers for witnesses, who should be willing to supply written statements refuting the allegations. It does seem they want him dismissed at all costs (no one is facing redundancy, in fact hubby has increased their profits by 10k a month since he took over)- they have pulled out little things dating back 6 months (that had already been dealt with) and reusing them as ammo. He won't be able to continue working for them whatever the outcome. (Unless it was temporary until he got a new job)
  Luckily he has worked for them just over a year. He got a 2.5k pay rise just in November - I can't see why they would do that if they were so unsatisfied with his management skills?
  Still, at least working out how to fight them has given us something to cncentrate on.
• Actually - we are hoping to get the police involved in one aspect of things:
  Apparently last October there was a discrepancy in the cash put in the bank. Cash was short Ј160 and credit payments were up by Ј160. Hubby's name was on the invoice as he wrote the order, but he didn't necessarily put the payment through.
  There is no money missing - but they are saying that he must have taken cash and put it on his credit card. Hubby pulled his card out his wallet and said - here, it's my only card check the numbers. His card only has a limit of Ј200, and there's only about Ј50 available so he couldn't have used it.
  Then the director said that he could have put it through for a friend!!
  Basically, they are getting at him for stuff, if he answers it, they twist it until he has no explanation left.
  I think they were hoping to scare him when they said they will need to get the police to investigate who's card it was, hubby said go right ahead, I would like to know who it belongs to as well. He has nothing to hide.
• First steps get your husbands policy on disciplinary.
  Follow each step through and see if they have followed procedure. If they haven't then they are in breach of contract and you can take them to tribuneral for unfair/unlawful dismissal.
  Regardless of what they think happened they must follow the procedure they have put down if they haven't then they are in breach of their own rules with you.
  Evidence or no evidence if they havent followed process then your husband has been unfairly treated.
  If I could just add one more thing considering everything would your husband really want to work for a company that treats him this way?
  My advice to you get him to go for a compromise agreement which will give you a nice tax free sum say around 12 months salary/benefits. This will give your husband time to look around for a reputable company to work for. Make giving your husband a good/fair reference part of the deal. For some reason or other they want your husband out I know its not fair but that is work :-(
  Try to get the best for yourselves and see it as an opportunity to do something better.
  Good luck I really feel for you x
• Chrissy - you are right, there's no way he wants to work for them now. Good point about a reference, I hadn't thought about that (too much stuff going through my head)
  I know I have seen the contract about somewhere, I can't for the life of me find it. Going to see if we can get a copy from one of the other guys at his work.
  Thanks
• As an aside - someone has suggested a compromise agreement but has only said to claim for 12 months' salary. A compromise agreement means that they don't necessarily accept that they are at fault, it also shuts the door so that your OH cannot go take his case to an employment tribunal. He also cannot discuss any settlement with anyone because if it gets out that he has then he has to pay back any settlement figure.
• Amber,
  I second what chrissy says about a compromise agreement - it offers the least painful and most certain way forward if it's achievable. Depends how hell bent they are on dismissal.
  The dilemma is when and how to bring the possibility of a compromise agreement to the table. Too soon - they sense weakness, and go full throttle on the disciplinary. Too late - they are so far down the disciplinary track that they are willing to gamble on an ET.
  Your DH's trusted friend may have a useful part to play here if he is prepared to act as an intermediary in brokering a deal. Depends where it leaves him as he has to live with the work situation afterwards.
  For the time being, your DH should probably just play it straight, respond to their moves, let their mistakes pile up and watch for an opportunity. And anything he can unearth on the motivation behind all this will help enormously in knowing how to play it.
  BW, LtW x
• From what I have seen and heard over the last few months, this is the new process that firms use to cut down on staff levels during a recession...sacking/suspension based on any reason in the contract/handbook that allows....Health and Safety, complaints in the workplace sexual/racial, poor accounting.....the list goes on....its not fair, its not right but I think people are starting to realise this
  I hope it goes well for you...
• Hi Amber,
  You mention a reference, following this type of situation an employer will probably just give confirmation of dates that hubby was employed by them which is all that is required by law, new employers will read into this what they will so be warned. The important issue here is- have they followed the minimum required procedure and from what you have stated I would think not. Any tribunal will determine if the due process has been followed and if not will find any dismissal automatically unfair. So as hard as it would be to stomach, I would not let them know that you have taken legal advice at any point in this affair, if they are in breach of their own disciplinary procedures or the minimum laid down by ACAS, they will not have a leg to stand on. Let them sack your hubby and take them to the cleaners. From the point of view of being an employer and sacking an employee having followed the correct processes, then being taken to tribunal it made commercial sense to settle prior to the hearing due to the fact that legal costs are not reclaimable against the person taking you to tribunal and in our case the demands of the ex employee were less than the legal costs. From that view it was disheartening to think that we had paid a bad employee to go away, but it made commercial sense (we are a very small charity with little funds). So unless this company is a vast organisation with its own legal team its going to cost them for representation and if you can get it over to them that they are in breach of their contractual terms in relation to their disciplinary procedures and / or the minimum requirements as laid down by ACAS you are in a strong position to negotiate terms. Don't be disheartened if they stall take them all the way, they can still settle on the day of the tribunal. Facts are so important in a case like this and are a powerful weapon in your defence, remember it is they that have to prove that they followed the correct procedure.
  Best of luck
• Sounds like you might need professional help. If you have home/car insurance, or with a credit card, you may have access to free legal help. It is worth finding out and if you have legal help you can ask for an employment specialist.
  Another site worth looking at, under employment is www.adviceguide.org.uk
  Good luck