The Great 'Get Paid To Generate Energy' Hunt

A question about : The Great 'Get Paid To Generate Energy' Hunt

On 1 April new feed-in tariffs were introduced. These tariffs are payments to normal households for generating their own renewable electricity.

The new tariffs are being massively subsidised by the Government, meaning it's now a more feasible way to cut your energy bill and make cash.

So we thought we'd tap MoneySavers' collective knowledge on how best to maximise this. Whether it's deciding if wind turbines or solar panels are best or general tips and tricks on buying an accredited system we want to know if the scheme will work for you and how you're making it work.

Which is the best system to go for and how did you decide? Eg solar, wind turbine, hydroepectricity etc...
What size system is best?
What should you watch for when buying your system, eg warranty, degradation rates of panels..
At the moment, the big suppliers offer the same export and generation rates (though competition may change this when the scheme is more established), but what extras do you get from your supplier? Eg did you get a free export meter?
What if you have an old system - what's the best way to upgrade it so you can get the higher feed in rates?
For more details of how the feed in tariffs work read more about the Clean Energy Cashback Scheme on EnergySavingTrust.

This Forum Tip was included in MoneySavingExpert's weekly email
Don't miss out on new deals, loopholes, and vouchers
FAQs
Privacy Policy
Past Emails
Unsubscribe

Best answers:

• I looked into a variety of alt energy a year or so back.
  Wind generation is pretty much pointless in an urban or suburban area unless you're in a tower block and can put the turbine on the roof or your property is on the crest of a hill with no nearby trees.
  Solar PV is probably the best bet for generating but there are new technologies in the pipeline for cheaper mass production flexible solar panels which should hit the market within a few years. That said, as long as you've got the south facing roof space for a panel or two and the capital to invest, it may be worthwhile to fit now.
  Hydro power is expensive, the equipment isn't too bad but you need permission to divert water.
  Taken from https://www.sustainablestuff.co.uk/Ge...droEnergy.html
  Quote:
• correction "The new tariffs are being massively subsidised by the Government"
  The new tariffs are subsided by energy customers in there bills
  The more affluent are more likely to burn more carbon and also likely to be the ones who can afford to buy solar panels
• Firstly for most people Wind generation is not a viable proposition. Also some people seem to confuse Solar thermal with Solar PV.
  Solar thermal only produces hot water and is a joke in money saving terms - spend Јthousands to save Јtens. It also has a well deserved reputation for being sold by corrupt firms/salesmen as many 'Watchdog' type programmes have exposed and perusal of Trading Standards office reports will confirm.
  Solar PV is electricity generation and benefits from the recently introduced Feed in Tariffs(FIT); however as stated above they are hardly paid for by the Government. A levy on all our bills will pay for FITs. If, say, Ј10 billion is eventually paid out annually in subsidies, we pay!
  The pros and cons of PV electricity generation with the (FIT) are discussed in this thread:
  https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...html?t=2244389
  A couple of points.
  1. Beware of salesmen talking in terms of 8% return on your investment. The logic behind 'investment' returns is discussed in the above thread. However the important principle is that putting, say Ј10k in a savings account and getting x% compounded interest, with your interest and capital always available, is very different to buying a system for Ј10k which gives you an income of y%.
  2. It is not possible to 'upgrade' an old system to get the new higher FITs.
  3. Whilst the FITs have made PV far more attractive, it is still a very long term investment and even the most enthusiastic solar advocate will not expect to show a 'profit' in less than 10 years.
  4. As we have no choice but to use an accredited installer if we want to get FITs, it would be desirable to have Ofgem exercise some regulation over these firms regarding prices and system guarantees(whilst panels have a very long warranty - the system is normally only 2 years)
• https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0727064058.htm
  https://www.pvpower.com/flexiblephotovoltaic.html
  products being sold at the moment
  https://products.bigfrogmountain.com/...me.php?cat=357
  They're a relatively new technology so prices are high and capacities are low as folk try to work out how to squeeze maximum dollar from them. As production methods improve the prices will drop, hopefully.
• I have a Ј17,500 quotation for a 4 kWp solar PV system with 22 Mitsubishi panels. That's from a small local company with a proven track record.
  A quote from e.on has yet to arrive, almost a month after contacting them, and I'm still waiting for Tesco even to manage to send out a surveyor, nearly three weeks after contacting them.
  Tesco and e.on have proved so inefficient in the quotation process that I'm very unlikely to use them unless they come up with dramatically lower figures than Ј17,500 (which I doubt).
  What sort of quotations are other people getting for 4 kWp systems (the efffective maximum, given the Feed in Tariff limits)?
• Just a couple of points about solar PV:
  The thin-film panels are cheaper but reliability is an unknown at the moment. They generally aren't suitable for household roofs as they have lower efficiency than silicon panels (typically 6% vs. ~15%), so need more space.
  Good quality silicon-based panels should come with a 20-25 year warranty.
  When doing the calculations (I have a spreadsheet but it doesn't look like I can post attachments) remember that you will need at least one new inverter during the life of the system, costing roughly Ј1000 (depending on system size etc). IIRC the current market leaders are SMA and Fronius, both of which should come with a decent warranty. However, the life of the inverter is still only likely to be around 10 years.
  That said, it is possible to get a decent return on the technology, assuming you have a south-facing roof with no shading. There are a number of on-line calculators that will calculate output based on location and roof angle, however a typical load factor for silicon panels is 10%, so you'd expect 876kWh/year per kW of PV installed.
• Lip service to green issues.
  I'd love to be able to DIY a system and if needs must, have the hook up done by a qualified electrician (ie: someone who has paid for Part P ticket). But this scheme doesn't support that.
  There is also no support for generation from waste products. ie: waste wood, oil, etc.
  It's a nice idea, but they are not really serious about home generation, just trying to look like they are saving the environment (by using resources to build solar panels and turbines).
  Recycled waste, recycled equipment.
  I guess off grid is the way to go then.
• I would like to know why wind generation is not viable for most people and in what type of environment is wind generation viable? Does anyone have any knowledge on this?
• "3. Whilst the FITs have made PV far more attractive, it is still a very long term investment and even the most enthusiastic solar advocate will not expect to show a 'profit' in less than 10 years. Totally agree at the moment, but the 'return' is based on capital, i.e what it produces as income versus what it costs to install & run; herein lies the big issue; Because the 'return' is pretty simple to calculate based on average income from generating, the known FIT values etc, it is simple for providers of the panels & installation packages to set prices which offer this supposed 8-10% return, and in the current financial climate they are possibly attractive to some, however this is in fact a complete rip-off as the industry is operating a cartel; see below re installers; If you source the components seperately, the combined cost is for a 2.2KpW system between 30-50% lower than buying in a package BUT try finding an MSC installer to meet the FIT compliance requirement and it is a 100% brickwall of no-one willing to step outside the complete package only cartel. Totally agree some form of robust ombudsman is required to ensure this gets sorted, otherwise the required uptake will never even begin."
  The above point mentions it is "simple to calculate based on average income from generating", which is true - if you know the size the system being installed you can predict how much electricity you'd generate and therefore the income. However, in addition to this obvious 'income' you have the financial savings in fuel costs that you are no longer paying out, i.e. you don't need to purchase as much electricity from the grid. This is not so easy to predict, and is often forgotten about in calculations on payback periods. It is assumed, and probable, that fuel costs will continue to rise significantly, and with PV system lifetimes of 25+ years, a payback period of 10 years is quite feasible. In fact that payback period could be revised (to be shorter) in a few years time when fuel prices have gone up even more!
  In defence of the secondary point regarding cartels and packages - as a small business solar installer I'd like to point out that if we are to guarantee a system installed by us we really like to know where the components come from! We have been asked to install a variety of components supplied by potential customers, but if we are not sure of the condition and/or authenticity of the product, then we are jeopardising the entire installation by installing that piece. This is usually not worth the financial risk to either the customer or the installer, not to mention possible safety aspects. We only accept this type of proposal where we feel there is no risk to either party. It is also worth remembering that installers have access to trade prices and may well find components at cheaper prices anyway.
  As a final note, do your research - it is a big investment for a home owner so make sure you are happy with the installer you choose. A good solar installer worth his salt will not pressure you, will not be just a salesman, and will be willing to answer all your questions and give you advice.
• /quote
  I'd love to be able to DIY a system and if needs must, have the hook up done by a qualified electrician (ie: someone who has paid for Part P ticket). But this scheme doesn't support that.
  quote
  Can anyone expand/confirm this?
  background (not necessary reading for the question): I am reasonably competent in the concept/electrics as I have an all be it small system with a 80W solar panel, controller, battery combining to power some homemade led lights and a pond pump. I will happily admit that we will never make the money back on an off-grid system like this but it was fun setting it up and as a project plus I like the stats I get, the ability if the power goes out to have some light and obviously the environmental credentials. Since its all DC, its reality save to muck around with and importantly we don't need to fill in a form hah.
  Know we know the potential we want a larger grid-connected system. The issue is that we want to buy the panels, inverter and set them up on the garage ourselves as its much cheaper. Can we still get this FIT if we only get a certified electrician to come around and add the breakers/generator meter/final connections and check for safety? Or do we HAVE to get the panels bought and installed for a registered company who charge over the odds. ex I got a 80W panel from China for Ј160 which costs Ј300 in the uk and its the same manufacturer.
• Hi, I'm new to here but have been getting Martins email for a good while now. I felt I best post on this subject as I have a degree in renewable energy and I work in PV as a design/project engineer albeit for a company which specialises in large scale PV not domestic so I won't be trying to sell you anything, but might be able to help someone out.
  In respect to the best technology to install it totally depends on your location, If you're pretty rural go for wind as it will pay back a lot quicker. All roof mounted turbines are not going to be very effective and could affect the structure of the house when it is spinning. So pole mounted is the way to go, but really you need to be in a fairly open area.
  PV will take longer to payback but has a lot less issues when it comes to planning permission. In most cases permitted development rights exist meaning the local council cannot stop you installing.
  When looking at PV, the efficiency varies greatly from panel to panel so it is best going with an installer who is not operating using a single product as you will not get the best solution, also get a number of quotes and finally ensure that the product AND the installer are both MCS accredited otherwise you are not entitled to anything.
  The PV panels which I deal with are not like the ones which are commonly seen as we focus commercially, so we use thin flexible panels and a new CIGS panel neither of which are suitable for domestic. In order to generate the most amount of energy on a domestic property I recommend Sanyo hybrid panels which will give the most amount of kWh (what you get paid for) per kWp installed. Although they are a more expensive upfront option the economics really stack up.
  The other option is of course to wait for the renewable heat incentive to come into play next year. Depends what you want to do, personally I'd prefer to generate electricity than heat, as I can use that all year round.
  Finding the initial capital to pay for a renewable technology is the hardest part, and unfortunately I have no news on any grants that may exist.
  One interesting point is that some financial companies are looking to begin renting roof space in order to install PV. The idea is that you will get free electricity and they will claim the FIT incentive. Whether this comes about however is another matter. If you are interested just keep an ear out.
  Finally if anyone would like help deciphering any of the techie bits and pieces then give me a shout and I'll help you out. I'm interested in the energy saving so anyone I can help get moving onto installing anything is a bonus for us all.
  Cheers.