Electric Central Heating i.e Thermaflow v Amtec

A question about : Electric Central Heating i.e Thermaflow v Amtec

Would love some technical and anecdotal advice regarding running (particularly costs) a wet central heating system with an electric boiler. We have been extensively researching the most cost effective (to run) system, to heat our renovated, small 3 bed (semi) cottage.
Oil and mains gas not possible, nor any of the modern heating systems i.e heat/air pumps ,solar systems etc.
Today we have narrowed it down to using a Thermaflow (heat store type) boiler (9kw 330l) to run 7 radiators and supply all the hot water for use (showers etc). Using an economy 10 tariff most probably from Scottish Southern (their times very compatible) even better the Economy 18 from Eon but this may not be available (because of stock!!!)
We are still open to installing a flow system like the Amtec from Heatrae Sadia but this seems even more expensiveto run....as do night storage heaters (plus do not like their inflexibility).
We are not factoring in the cost of installing the system with our running cost calculations as we have weighed this up seperately and the cost (ha ha within reason!!!), is less important than finding a system that suits our needs and provides as economical running costs as possible.
Would love to hear from anyone who has experience of these systems, any real day to day running costs....and pros &cons.
I have spent the day speaking to manufacturers, suppliers and even the Energysaving Trust all who have very little real information the nearest costings we could get were those based on Scottish Powers Ec2000 Tariff which is not available to us.

Thank you for reading this.

If it helps to have some more information.... this system is to be used by 2 full time workers and we are considering fitting a log burner (when funds allow) which we hope to use whenever possible but thought this might not be practicle on a day to day basis when we get home from work etc and when we get up...if anyone has information on these we would be interested too.

Best answers:

• Welcome to the forum.
  The first, and most important, point to make is that all electrical heating systems will give out EXACTLY the same amount of heat for the same running costs. So the heat a room to xC for yhours will use zkWh and cost the same.(using the same tariff)
  Using E10 will give you far less choice of Energy supplier as most simply will not cater for E10 - E7 and single tariff are their staple tariffs. In any case E10 charges often make it less attractive than E7.
  So you are really down to the controllability and flexibility of an electrical heating system.
  Here we are in the realms of personal opinion, and I cannot think of anything less flexible, or indeed controllable than a 'wet' electrical radiator system; even with a 9kW boiler and a large heat store. If you don't(understandably) like night storage heaters because of their lack of flexibility, you have largely the same issues with a wet system plus a pump and radiators/pipes.
  Personally, as you are out all day, I would go for simple panel type heaters that can be used with timers and even remote controls. Instant heat, exactly when you want the heat and if you shy away from these stupidly expensive 'systems' much cheaper to install. The savings on installation costs alone will offset higher running costs on a single tariff.
  However as I said - a lot of this comes down to personal choice; so good luck whatever you decide.
• Thanks so much Cardew for taking the time to reply we appreciate your comments.
  The running costs do appear to be different between the thermaflow and an actual flow system boiler as the thermaflow mainly utilises off peak electricity, but we still have so many unanswered questions that we are reluctant to proceed on just the manufacturers details and claims.
  In this stage of our renovation I think we would be foolish not to consider installing a central heating system as this rightly or wrongly it is something prospective buyers insist on and whilst we intend this to be our family home we do have to look to the future and cover all bases. Also as we would love to have a family one day, our heating needs will change so I think panel heaters would become very expensive to run.
  I have just heard back from our surveyor who kindly consulted a heating engineer who is unimpressed by electric boilers but I'm not sure if he had experience of the thermaflow! He thought gas (bottles)were our best option......so we have gone full circle and as one friend suggested.....Thick jumpers are our best option !!!
  Thanks again cardew and all who took time to read it....and thanks to moneysavingexpert and the forum this site is invaluable
• I was running a wet electric heating system using a 12 kw Amptec heater linked to a 250 litre thermal store running on Economy 10. The system worked reasonably well but the store was not big enough to heat the rads for an adequate length of time outwith the cheap rate periods which were the only periods that I heated the water. Consumption for a 3 bed terraced house was around 16,000kwh per annum of which 80-90% was cheap rate. Heat in the house was adequate in my view but my OH would say differently. I have since added an ASHP to the system - the jury is still out on the economics of my addition - time will tell.
• For information:
  Two weeks ago we had an Elnur CMX15 electric combi boiler fitted along with 6 radiators controlled via a Myson MPRT RF "smart" chronostat. The boiler has been restricted to use a maximum of 6KW from a new 32amp supply. The CMX15 has an on-board 50 litre hot water store. We're running the boiler on a standard tariff from nPower at 10.5p/Kwh (inc. VAT). The boiler takes 14 minutes to re-heat the water store from cold.
  Our house is a 2/3 bed modern mid-terrace and is very well insulated.
  Despite it having been a very very cold couple of weeks I've worked out that our total electricity usage in the last week was Ј33.05 (including VAT & standing charge of 25p per day). I'm very pleased with this.
  We also have a 1.7Kwp solar PV installed but this only generated 4Kwh in the past seven days having spent much of its time covered with snow.
  The chronostat is set to come on 05:00 - 07:00 at 21c and 15:00 - 22:00 at 22c dropping back to 14c all other times. All but the bypass radiator in the living room (where the chronostat is fitted) have TRV's.
  We do have a gas supply available but do not use it and pay no standanding charge. Also the electric boiler needs minimal servicing and no inspections per se.
  Another factor in our choice to go electric was from a safety perspective (no fume ingress possibility) and also no requirement to bash through the kitchen wall to fit a flue.
  Very pleased with the new boiler and the hot water from the store gets to the taps in 3-4 seconds as opposed to a gas combi which can take 30-45 seconds (if no on-board store). Furthermore a gas combi often pumps excess hot water around the radiators when the hot tap is turned off to avoid overheat which can appreciably heat up radiators (as previously experienced) in the warmer months which is not too desirable. The electric combi boiler does not do this.
  So, we're pleased with our installation and running costs.
  Please feel free to ask any questions.
  gc_bus
  p.s. the new electric boiler/CH system replaced some previously installed "electric radiators" that we pretty useless to be honest - cheapish to run but ineffective as they seem to modulate down really low to save energy but then of course gave out little heat.
• Hi,
  We are in the process of moving away from using electricity for heating, and if I had to choose, I would go for storage heaters or panels, rather than a full electric heating system.
  Quote:
• We have installed an Amptek (?9kW) boiler in our holiday cottage. This runs radiators and heats hot water, in a conventional arrangement with a timer regulating heating and hot water separately, TRVs on the radiators and a tank thermostat on the hot water cylinder.
  There was an existing very old open fire with back-boiler running rads, so we didn't have to start from scratch, though we had to replace one or two very old radiators.
  We ran this on Economy 10 for a year, but looked carefully at useage (total kWh) and worked out we'd be better off on a standard tariff, especially since we'd then be able to shop around for the best deal (much more choice with a standard meter than with an Economy 10 meter).
  We have been pleasantly surprised at how reasonable the costs are: not as low as you'd get with modern technology such as ASHPs, perhaps, more like the average heating bill for a 2-bedroom detached bungalow in the Highlands. Also, we don't have annual service charges for the equipment. It takes up very little space and does not need an outside wall (no flue) or an oil tank.
  Whatever you decide I would definitely steer clear of storage heaters: expensive and difficult to control to fit most peoples' lifestyles.
• My mother has E7 storage rads. These have a central miser control which senses the outside temperature overnight and adjusts the charge time. So cold night you get a full 7 hrs, warm night you get less. The miser has a knob on the front so can can adjust it for how you like it (cool house or warm house).
  E7 storage probably works best for people at home all the time, but having said that the difference between 24hr and not 24hr in any house is not that much (15-5%) because of the heat storage in the house structure.
  I don't know if they have improved storage radiators since my mother had them fitted but if I was going down that route I'd want remote control of the rad flap (which you open to let more heat out).
• Units of electricity used now down to 24 per day (as it's turned milder and solar PV now generating around 4 Kwh per day too) - very pleased as that's for everything used not just the electric boiler C/H. Also, compared to my previous "awful" electric heaters (yes got sucked in by the gel-filled hype) the whole house is warm to the core - probably due to the slight loss of heat from pipe runs to the radiators which spreads the heat well. Again I can't stress enough how very good insulation is crucial to any heating system, especially when using electricity in any form. Remember to have sufficient ventilation though especially if burning fossil fuels.
• Hello everyone first time using this.
  I have recently moved into my first house which has electrical heating. The current setup is a heatrae sandia amptec 12kw boiler for my radiators and a huge immersion tank for my hot water. I am finding it very expensive to run the amptec and feel I am not getting my money's worth of heat from it I was wondering if anyone had any information on electric combi boilers or any other forms? I am not wanting storage heaters or pannel heaters. Also the type of house I live in is a two bed bungalow which has no gas or oil.
• Have a look further up this thread for my experiences with a newly installed Elnur CMX15 combi boiler (downrated to 6Kwh max.).
• hello
  i have a 1bedroom flat on the ground flor and i want to do wet electric heater system because the storage electric heater which i have is not working properly.
  im wondred about the bill
  i have a 3kw boiler and i will instal 4 radiators , 2 small 600*600 and the other 2 is 1400* 600
  so please , can any one have the same system (wet electric heater) give me advice ,
  thanks
• Our electric boiler is down-rated to 6Kwh. We've one small; four medium and one large radiator. We're on Economy 7 as we've left the house before the day rate kicks in so the early morning baths/showers/heating etc are all done on the cheap rate (6.5p/Kwh). Our day rate is 11.5p/Kwh - May 2014 Online tariff with nPower. The whole of our electricity is costing us around Ј80 per month including standing charge. No servicing required per se nor any gas standing charge either. We've a three bed house. Very well insulated - that's they key. Hope that helps.
• Hi gc_bus
  Are you still happy with the CMX15?
  We're thinking about ditching oil and moving over to all electric as we are hoping to build a small extension and would need to spend quite a bit on a remote filling point, re-siting the tank etc. and we would still have to look at the delightful tank which does somewhat spoil our beautiful view.
  Did you use an 'approved installer' if there is indeed such a thing?
• Hi kmdp99,
  Yes, we are still very happy with the CMX15. Since last posting to this thread we've moved to E7 as we're using greater than 33% of our electricity on the "overnight" rate being early risers. Our TOTAL electricity bills are coming in at less than Ј80 per month. No gas servicing charges or gas standing charges to pay either. The CMX15 is quick to heat up the rads. and the chronostat in smart learning mode is very very accurate. Lovely to have that reserve of 50 litres of hot water so it's near instant at the taps. No venting of excess hot water around the rads unlike some gas combi boilers which can be wasteful in the summer (as well as appreciably heating up the rads when you don't want them to be). Very pleased with it. Siting of the boiler was also a consideration for us but with the CMX15 no outside wall is required and of course no fumes produced.
  We used a local heating and plumbing company who we've used before.
  Our heating is on from ~05:30 - 07:00 at 20c and then ~15:30-22:00 at 22c. 14c at all other times. The house never drops below 16c even in this protracted cold snap. Good insulation is the key for all heating to be efficient.