'Consultation over the Gambling Introductory Offer Loopholes board' blog discussion

A question about : 'Consultation over the Gambling Introductory Offer Loopholes board' blog discussion

This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.

Read Martin's Consultation over the Gambling Introductory Offer Loopholes board Blog.

UPDATE Martin has now posted his Gambling Board Consultation Results blog and we have closed this discussion accordingly ::

Best answers:

• Leave our forum alone.
  Jobbingmusician / Misskool do sterling work and the info / advice is a god send.
  You run the risk of the less knowledgable GIOLers going to another forum and losing big money as the community is not as supportive there.
  I think there is a duty of care here for MSE
• looks like R-points is gonna have a resurgence...
  Personally i cannot see what's changed, obviously you get those from TGT just reporting everything they don't want in a public forum, if that is part of the reason then maybe making it private to all but registered users would make a difference?
• I tend to agree with Martin's comments and observations. There are a lot of risky offers......however. I still think people will want to Matched Bet and having the forum is a great place for them to ask questions and mitigate as much risk as possible, especially from new offers and the like.
  Could the rules be changed maybe make the forum "bookie SUBs and reloads". Remove all other offers such as "what if", "refund if 0-0" etc.? Keep it to the pure and simple sign-up bonuses and relaods that are not complicated and hazy? I would hate to see this forum die as it has helpe dme make a lot of money and stopped me hitting financial hardship a couple of years ago.
• Very true about TGT influence - would say this is creating a disproportionate number of reports.
  Make it private and for registered users only.
• Hi
  Unfortunately I think its time for the forum to shut down.
  I know for a fact a few people on here who lost thousands of pounds in a bookie that was being promoted on MSE ' Gambling Risk Free forum ' and defended by many senior posters whilst it turned out to be nothing more than a pyramid scheme.
  People do think if it is under the brand of MSE it will be 100% safe or risk free whilst this is obviously far from the truth.
  Regards
  Cdub
• I personally have made about Ј15,000 and my friend has most likely even more from the GIOL offers.
  It is basic maths and an ability to read T&C. People will always mess things up as not everybody is capable of doing even basic maths or reading.
  That doesn't mean you shoudl take down a board about old style money saving because somebody burns themselves trying to iron out some wax from a shirt?
  It will go elsehwere so I am not too bothered but all I will say is there are many people will miss out on huge money if this goes. GIOL can make other parts of the site look like saving peanuts and a little pointless when you get into it.
  My 2 pence worth
• No other part of MSE will ever make anyone as much money as the GIOL board. When strategies involving risk are posted they are normally locked pretty quickly. In the main those that want the board closed have their own agenda regarding keeping offers within a small community, rather than concern for others losing money.
• Before commenting on the broader issues of how the forum operates, I just want to stress what an absolute godsend GIOL was for me personally.
  Just over a year ago I was suffering severe financial hardship and while I'd tried many other ways to gain some extra cash (selling stuff on ebay, comping etc.), nothing I'd found was doing more than offering a tiny stop gap to my ailing financial health.
  In a year of match betting I made approx Ј6,000 tax free and am in a far better state of health both financially and personally as a result.
  Yes it is a complex area and not for the faint hearted. It took me a lot of reading and re-reading before I took the plunge and there were a lot of large warning notices that came with GIOL to advise people of the dangers and I took those on board.
  If the GIOL board had not existed, I would not have read about it elsewhere on the MSE forums and made my way over there. I have no interest in gambling outside of the money making opportunities it gives me and very much doubt I would ever have found out about these loopholes and exploited them without the existence of these boards on MSE.
  For people that may be in a similar situation to the one I was in a year ago, it would be sad if this very rewarding money making opportunity was no longer promoted here.
• The IceSave debacle should have had more criticism yes. As should posts advertising questionable bookies as risk free. I myself go into many a questionable bookie but would never have when I started if I had known they were questionable. This is the issue, bookies with no credence are being promoted, offers which are far from risk free are being promoted and the "its ok to have a little mug" attitude is more prevalent which makes the forum stray far from its remit.
  I would say don't close the forum but have a trial period where only risk free content can be posted, warnings from posters about potential issues should be flagged or stickied or something so that people can see them without reading all 100 pages of a thread and we'll be in much better shape.
  Would be sad to see the forum go but in its current form it is something quite different than when I originally signed up.
• Compared to years ago the offers are far too complex, many offers require 'specialist' spreadsheets to calculate stakes, which many people on here do not understand. Dare I say it many don't even understand the basic 'matcher' concept! How do you police something you don't understand, answer: you can't.
  Look at the front page now, no offer worthy of a mention, paltry offers (corbettsports Ј5 in casino for Ј10 bet, Getwin bet Ј5 for Ј10, Allyoubet Ј10 refund and of course the behemoth that is the Betfair multiples thread).
  The board has moved away from its remit of gambling introductory loopholes (yes thats where GIOL comes from) to new methods totally unsuitable for MSE
• This shouldn't turn into a ICEsave / PRS slanging game - 2 small (yet material) issues which should not detract from all the other good work onboth MSE and GIOL.
  TGT charge cЈ30 to sign up for info that is free and supplied on our forum and they have a vested interest in getting our forum closed
  Remove the riskier "non core" bookmakers but keep the offers for pure matched betting / risk free.
  It will take a bit of time to realign what is accepted but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
• There are a number of issues on here.
  Firstly: everyone should know about the laws regarding bookmakers and if they into administration / bust. Punters money is not protected and are last in the que when it comes to being paid out through liquidation / administration procedures. Any of the highstreet bookies could go into administration, esp if the banks recall their loans so people should beware that their money is not safe in a bookmaker. The business model of PRS was not the best but in terms of the board rules, it was considered as "risk-free" since you match bet the prices that were given. I doubt MSE could start saying which bookie people should use.
  Secondly, you're not going to get a fair discussion regarding the future of GIOL. The majority of people who say to close it will be Trolls, a term that we use to describe people who take offers but contribute nothing. These people want to keep all the best offers for themselves and will abuse anyone who posts a good offer which is risk free - first hand experience at this when I've posted an offer in the past.
  Finally, the mods do a great job of keeping tabs on the board. The main prob tho is new members not reading the intro guide or not actually using the search function.
• Would it be possible to modify the software so that every post in that board is prefaced by the words "This may NOT be risk free. Matched betting and arbitrage are complex subjects, please make sure you fully understand how they work before depositing any money. As a general rule of thumb, if you haven't regularly played on Betfair or a similar betting exchange for the past three years, this is probably not for you".
• Just wanna chime in. GIOL made me enough money to get by when I was ill for a year and it's helping me top up my degree. Granted, there's a lot of offers I don't understand well enough nowdays to go in for so I don't go in for them. I really think that at the very least this board should be made private to stop lurkers. I don't contribute as much as I'd like because there are people far more knowledgeable than I am and quicker off the mark to post! Sure it will move elsewhere but there's so many clever folks on here and a really strong archive of information it would be a shame to lose it all.
• The problem with a board like this is it's only risk free if you bother to read instructions in posts, employ the correct techniques and do the research involved. I would suggest it is people that don't do that in the first place who are making the most complaints rather than anyone else. The only money I've lost is from my own mistakes from not reading terms and conditions of offers or making the wrong calculations.
  One thing I would suggest however is that it is more strictly monitored for people posting relevant information in the right place. One of the reasons I expect people don't bother to read the parts of threads they need to is because it is taken up with hundreds of posts of people gloating over being Ј1 up on a slot or panicking that a bookie hasn't paid out to their moneybookers account within 20 nanoseconds of a request.
  It would be a shame to see this board close because of a few highly stupid, ignorant and impatient folk. I would say on balance it has probably made far more money for the sensible and experienced match bettors than it's lost for idiots.
• As with Ghost_2005, I also started a little over a year ago. I have made about Ј6k, with a few errors along the way. That was from a Ј200 starting point with help from the forum and the tools that are so kindly shared. Offers come and offers go, but I think someone starting today can expect over Ј5k in the next 12 months without any significant risk except user error risk. To reach that level you do need to be willing to use much of your profits as float. I could take Ј2k out of my float without effecting my earning potential, but would not want to take much more out.
  The forum could be improved, much of the reference material is now dated and discusses sign ups that are no longer there. However, the methods remian the same. The problem is of course that only experienced people could re-write these and that is time consuming. What material there is is perfectly adequite.
  One of the main issues with the board are the attacks that come from other sites that do not want to encourage others to look into matched betting. After all, bookies have limited promotional budgets. If a bookie has a Ј10k budget and 1000 people take a promo then ther is Ј10 each. If only 100 know of a promo then there is Ј100 each. That is the basic rational of people who come over from other forums to click "spam" when a decent new offer or loophole is posted. They like it to be their little secret, and not to share with a wider community.
  Shortly this thread will come under attack. There will be numerous posts from "low count" posters claiming to have lost money on the back of the GIOL board, and claiming that the board promotes unacceptable risks. Do not be swayed by this influx.
  If your editorial board cannot judge what is complex then perhaps they should spend a week match betting. They will quickly learn the methods and see the potential. Anyone who has access to a computer, to microsoft excel, and who is reanably numerate will be able to pick up the basics in no time. I certainly hope most of the editors would tick these boxes!