Conservation Area

A question about : Conservation Area

I bought a ground floor leasehold flat in a conservation area, subject to 'article 4'. We are renovating the flat to sell it on and top of the list of things to do was to replace the old very thinly paned sash windows with new timber framed double glazed windows. We were worried about how cold it would get, (plus we noticed fairly quickly that we have very noisy neighbours - double glazing helps with this).

So we had them replaced, without getting any planning permission. The road is full of pvc windows, mixed with original sashes. There are also some horrible front doors, some people have painted their brickwork etc. It's quite obvious that it isn't 'conserved' very well.

The window supplier was a referral from someone down the road, (I put a note through their door after noticing there lovely new windows). They come all the way from Poland, and are a very close match to the originals. The owners of this house down the road also didn't get planning permission. Obviously can't put the blame on her at all but she did persuade me that the conservation area was a bit of a joke.

Anyway, if we were going to stay in the flat for 4 years I believe it wouldn't be a problem, (as if nobody complains in that time theres nothing the conservation area people can do, i think...). But we are doing it up to sell and I totally didn't realise that we would have to prove that we got permission to future potential buyers. Very naive I know.

I've been an idiot, we should have kept the originals. But it's done now and I don't know what to do. Obviously the windows cost a lot of money, and the originals have been dumped.

I think these are my options:

1. Apply for retrospective permission. I think this will be denied and we will have to pay to have exact single glazed replicas made. This would cost us 6-7k in total I think

2. Try and sell without permission (but will uncover the windows and get building regs approval. Had no idea that this was needed either). Obviously very uncomfortable with this as it would involve being dishonest.

3. Stay put for 4 years. Say goodbye to property developing dream!

This has potentially been a very costly learning curve. We won't make much profit on the development now, and I will never again buy in a conservation area. I agree that pvc shouldn't be allowed but I can't believe they can force you to live with paper thin windows, even if you are prepared to pay for timber framed replacements.

Any comments/advice/opinions would be much appreciated

Best answers:

• You could try and apply for retrospective planning permission. I am surprised that although you knew you lived in a conservation area that you did not even think to seek planning permission for your new pvc windows.
  The alternative is to save up and have the windows done again - only properly this time and in accordance with the conservation area and what you are allowed to do.
• Or get indemnity insurance, rather than highlight to the planners that there's a contravention.
• Oh sorry maybe I mis-typed. The new windows are not upvc. They are timber framed. But still, yes I should have got permission. I realise that, it was stupid. I just decided at the time, after speaking to the lady who referred the window supplier to me and seeing the general state of the road, that the conservation area wasn't applied very seriously.
  How exactly would indemnity insurance help?
  Thanks for responses
• The insurance protects your buyer from the cost of replacement if the council ever enforce PP or Building Regs.
  Note that once you have aproached the council and advised them of the issue, any insurance is invalidated, so speaking to the council is unwise if you are considering indemnity insurance.
• I forgot to mention there is another complication - we were hoping to add an extension to the property, and were of course going to apply for permission for this (a property nearby has the same extension so i believe it would be granted).
  But obviously this will involve an inspector coming round, and they will most likely notice the new windows... Would that then invalidate any indemnity insurance?
• I've just read up on indemnity insurance. It seems we have to wait until a year after the work was completed until we can get it. I think that might be the best option... I guess we will have to forget the extension.
  Are most buyers happy to have the indemnity insurance rather than the planning permission?
• The 'of course' just comes from the opinion that an extension is a much more major alteration to the building..?
  So do you think an inspector coming round to look at the extension plans & noticing the windows will invalidate the indemnity insurance?
  Will make a donation. Thanks for helping
• Is your house listed?
  If it isn't, then there is no automatic veto on double glazed windows, but the matching with the originals would be considered closely by the council's conservation officer.
  You say the windows are a 'very close match' so why do you think retrospective permission wouldn't be granted?
• No it isn't listed. But it states on an online document for the conservation area that the original sashes should never be replaced. I don't think this document was online back when I was researching & deciding whether or not to go ahead. If I'd seen something like that, clearly saying that it is never allowed, then I definitely wouldn't have done it. At the time I was just thinking 'these new windows are going to be timber framed so would almost definitely be allowed. If worse comes to worst I can always just apply for retrospective permission..'
  But now having seen this document, I don't think they would be. Whilst they are a close match, it's fairly obvious that they are different, being brand new, & double glazed. But even if they looked EXACTLY the same, they still wouldn't be allowed according this document.
• I live in a conservation area house - we are allowed to install double glazing but not replace the style. So we did this - company came out and replaced the original sashes with exact replicas just double glazed. The council agreed to this too.
  I would have thoug that if the style/design of the window is the same the council wont mind!
• I suspect that the properties with non-original style windows had probably already had them replaced before the conservation area protection was brought in.
• When the area became 'conservation', did you receive a letter from that department? It may be that windows aren't mentioned. We had this letter a few years back and it was very sketchy, clearly penned with little thought. I had new windows post conservation and when I sold the property the fitter just obtained retrospective permission.
• My father used to sell windows and struggled to convince people in your situation of the need to observe council regs. Especially if others dont appear to
  There are a few ways in which i have heard people have had unexpectedly had problems before selling
  - other local resident wants same windows as yours.. applies to council..drops you in it.
  - local housing officer drives past and notes address of non-compliant windows.
  - fall out with neighbours who report you to council out of spite.
  This was generally for windows which were non compliant for safety i.e. opening panels allowing escape in case of fire. Easier to see from a distance and a more serious risk for young childrens bedrooms etc.
• Different councils apply the rules differently and in our area they wil not allow double glazing at all on the front of a property.At the rear they sometimes allow slimlite double glazing.The frames and sashes must be exact copies of the originals. There can be harsh consequences for ripping out old windows in a conservation area including heavy fines as well as being made to replace the windows again.
  I work mainly on old properties and deal with the local authorities regularly and you can even argue that all around your property are Upvc double glazed windows and it will make next to n difference.The thing is conservation areas and designated all the time so even though there are plastic winodws all around its the date that they were fitted that counts.
  Without wishing to sound too harsh the OP and other amateur developers should not be allowed near Conservation areas because the damage they cause cannot be repaired.Once we lose the historical context its gone forever.
• Have you actually checked with the council officer. Having lived in 3 conservation areas and 2 national parks (worse) window changes have always been agreed with a phone call. The rule seems to be that as long as someone else has them- so can you.
  To assume planning is needed seems a little over the top- you may just need permission and it may just be given on the phone.
  We actually restored wooden windows in our last 2 houses replacing UPVC and would love to do it here but at Ј100k it is not realistic.
• Thanks for replies.
  On the council document about the conservation area it says 'replacement of repairable original windows will not be permitted'. And 'Enforcement action will be taken against anyone who does this'.
  I guess that's pretty black & white. I could perhaps apply for retrospective permission and lie - say that the originals were irreparable.
  I just can't imagine that enforcement action would ever be taken, (unless perhaps you have a neighbour who hates you enough to put you in it).
  I checked and the Article 4 notice has been in place since 1996. I'm sure some of the pvc must have been done in the last 25 years...
  I've lived here 4 months now and there is a house a few yards away that has had bin liners/cardboard boxes for windows since we moved in. I've not seen any enforcement notice on that!
  I think I'm going to stick with the indemnity insurance plan. Applying for retrospective permission is too much of a risk. We're planning on replacing a window at the rear of the flat with a door, & also replacing the bedroom window (already bought) too. I was going to cancel both, but think we'll just go ahead now...