Redundancy Help

A question about : Redundancy Help

Hi,

My department is going through a restructure at present and am concerned with regards what might happen.

New roles were advertised (with different job titles etc) but there was only 1 position at the same grade as me, where 3 people currently all do this.

I didnt want to apply for the role as I dont want to be in the department any more and wanted a change - probably outside of the company.

Am I right in thinking that as the new role advertised has a different title and job spec, that my current role is officially 'redundant' and that I would have to be offered redundancy at some stage?

I feel that the company will try to force me into a different role which I dont want to do. The background about my grade etc is that within my role there are 4 levels, 1,2,3 & 4, of which I am a 4. All of the levels have a different salary and role specification. I have previously completed role 3 (but this was over 4-5 years ago and this role has changed since then). There are no other roles with a level 4 within the company.

Basically I feel they will present one of these roles to me - can i reject it and go forward for redundancy?

I am very nervous about this whole situation and would welcome some advice on how to play this!!

Thanks

Best answers:

• Any alternative roll needs to be a suitable alternative.
  pay is one reason for it not to be suitable.
  people should have officialy been put at risk and notified they are in a consultancy period has this happened?
  have a read through this is gives an outline of what should be happening.
  https://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=747
• the consultation period ended this week. I am getting a letter from my manager on monday apparantly.
  Can they not offer me a lower job but freeze my salary - thus avoiding this being deemed as 'unsuitable'??
  I have also heard that if i am offered a redeployment role and i decline it, then i cannot move forward for redundancy?
  I have worked for the company for 11 years and to be honest I would rather leave and start a new career somewhere else, so redundancy is the option I am truly hoping for.
  I am so nervous and confused at the moment!
• added the link missed in the last post.
  Redeployment still has to be suitable alternative.
  freezing pay can get round the reduced pay aspect but there are other related factors like status.
  look at the jobs seriously and see how different they are from what you do and make the list of things that make them unsuitable.
• Hi
  An update and request for further advice...
  I have received another letter stating that I am at risk of redundancy because 'there isnt a requirement to carry out the work I am currently doing'. In a subsequent meeting with my manager I said that I had been actively looking on my company vacancy board but there wasnt anything which appealed to me. My manager then started saying I was wasnt being realistic as she feels I am waiting for the perfect job rather than taking something that might fit some of my current skills.
  After over 35 mins, my manager then asked if I thought redundancy would be an option within this process, to which point I said that if a role didnt become available which appealed to me then that would be the natural route this process would take. This was met with some strange looks and an intimation that this wouldnt be the case.
  Basically, I feel I am being pressured to consider roles which I dont want. Am I right to stick to my guns as they have to offer me redundancy due to the circumstances? I want to leave as I know the career path I now want to take so leaving is what I want to get out of this situation.
  If you need any further information to help give me more of an informed opinion, then please let me know.
• Hi all,
  I would really appreciate some opinions on my situation as think I have my next formal meeting with my manager next week...
• Sorry i cant be of more help but perhaps this will give you some information to think about or that you didnt previously know?
  https://www.worksmart.org.uk/rights/m...an_alternative
  There is also another page on that site that states:
  "So, if you are thinking of rejecting an alternative job offer, take advice, and do so in good time. You will be in a stronger position if you at least give a job alternative that might look suitable to an outsider a try and then clearly give reasons based on your experience of the job to show that it is unsuitable"
• I've had a further meeting with my manager and explained why the 4 other jobs within my grade banding (all lower than my current role) are not suitable for me, citing:
  potential changes in hours (leading to increased childcare costs as well as problems collecting kids from nursery as I have to do this on some days my wife is at work).
  changes in salary (stating that if they froze my salary, would this be permanently? as well as with our annual pay increase in Jan if my salary was frozen I would then be worse off as my salary had not risen in line with the rise in living expenses!)
  Change in work type - all four roles are consdirably different to my roles and very technical where mine is solely people focussed.
  Change in status - being at the top of my current grade banding, any other job would mean career progression has gone back over by at least 2-3 years.
  I was also advised to look at the company jobs board and highlight any roles which may have been suitable and why they were ultimately not. These were due to travel as many are at our head office over 70 miles away.
  I have since been told I am now officially a 'redeployee' and am awaiting interview processes for people who have aspired for higher grade roles to be completed and placing of people to begin.
  Have I done the right thing by pre-empting any offer of the roles or does this just mean they have time to pick holes in my argument??
  I'm still on the knife-edge of excitement of leaving and potentially starting a new career somewhere else and that of potentially thinking 'will i get another job' in the current climate!!
  Help put my mind at rest (if you can)...
• HELP...
  I've had my next meeting with my manager today and have been told redundancy is NOT an option.
  I have been offered the P1 role (see my previous notes - I am P4 with 2 other levels between us) although all these roles are cosidered in 'level 8 banding'.
  The differences in the roles (simplified) are:
• Ј10k in pay (although I know they might freeze my pay)
• Working hours could change
• New role is 100% customer facing, whereas current role is 0% customer facing (have been advised that although I dont actually speak to customers currently, this is something which I could still be asked to do and is in my contract?)
• The work I would be carrying out is completely different - I would be dealing with customers enquiries/complaints etc rather than providing coaching and support to other managers which I currently do

Should I sit tight and potentially go to an employment tribunal or take the offer which is on the table (which I dont want to do at all). I have been advised they may potentially come back to me and offer me the P2 or P3 roles further down the line. I've been told that an employment tribunal could cost between Ј10k-Ј15k which is very worrying for a parent with two children to support.
I need advice as this is properly playing with my head...

• It does sound like you need some specific legal advice about what your rights are. Do you have access to any legal advice (normally helplines) via the company or your unions? If not, it would be money well spent speaking to an employment law specialist.
• I've called the company support helpline and they have stated pretty much the same as me - about the role having to be reasonable & suitable.
  They suggested an initial consultation with a solicitor who specialises in employment law, however the couple I phoned said it would cost Ј198 per hour + VAT. This is a lot of money to pay out bearing in mind I have a family etc and little income.
  I guess i'm just nervous about the possibility of going to an employment tribunal and losing as this could cost over Ј10k which we cannot afford. Part of me is really confident that it would be successful but its a massive risk to take...
• I was wondering whether some further information I have just remembered would strengthen my case:
  Approx 4 years ago I was in a different department within the same company. They too went through a restructure where my position no longer existed - as per my current situation.
  On that occasion I was offered redeployment to the team I now work for or redundancy - I was never offered redeployment back to the Position 1 which I am now faced with. I took redeployment as the redundancy offer wasnt worth leaving at that point. This was on the same hours and pay was frozen.
  I was redeployed to a position 3 in the structure (as discussed in my original post) and after this I applied and was successful in gaining promotion to the position 4.
  I would think that from a consistency point of view this must count for something??
• Hi,
  Unfortunately this wasnt something that I took out as part of my home insurance. So guess I need to consider speaking to the CAB.
  I would also really appreciate some advice/comments on my last post (r.e. being offered redundancy previously) as this whole situation is causing me some concern.
  Thanks
• redundancy offer previously has no bearing whatsoever. Niether does lack of career progression, nor place on a pay band, as long as they aren't cutting your wages (without a buy down payment)
  you say you have a people focussed role but see no link to customer facing - I see many links
  if they are offering a pay freeze, I think you'll have to take the job - I also think they'll se if you will resign off your own back so they don't have to give you a pay out. You would have been better opting for the lesser of the evils when you had the option.
• I would really try calling a few more solicitors to find if any will offer a free consultation.
  My situation is basically i'm a nightshift worker and my employer is looking to close the office between 12 midnight and 6am mon-fri. As this affects the majority of my shifts (60%) and because the alternative they are offering is dayshifts, my solicitor has advised them it most certainly IS a redundancy situation.
  ACAS told me there are 3 ways a employer can vary your contract:
  1) If you agree to it
  2) If your contract has a clause which permits it*
  3) They can dismiss you on the old contract and offer to re-employ you on the new one **
  *Even with such a clause, a fundamental change which goes to the heart of the contract - especially if it is unilateral/one-sided - can still be seen as breach of contract
  **This may then open them up to unfair dismissal procedures.
• ive requested a copy of my contract from my hr team to see what the clauses in it are.
  What advice can you offer about the completely different role I am being offered? The role I have been offered is answering phone calls from customers/getting a million sales a week etc, whereas at the moment my current role is coaching the managers of agents who do the work I am being offered!
  I have never worked to sales targets in our company and know this would give me huge amounts of stress and very unhappy.
  It is also a move back by 3 grades within my current role level. Surely this is something which would deem this offer as not 'reasonable or suitable'.
  For the record I want to be in a position to get redundancy. I have worked for my company for many years and feel the time is right to pursue other avenues, so any advice on how I can manipulate the situation to my advantage would be appreciated.
• sounds like "those who can't teach.."
  if you train it, you should be able to do it.
  It seems a reasonable match to me. And it is 3 grades below? Should be a cakewalk. They are freezing your oay so no grade issues. And actually if you have never worked to targets you do not KNOW that they will stress you, you just THINK they will.
  No guidance on manipulation. The time to co-operate was much earlier in the process. You didn't, and now there are few choices left, but that is of your own choosing.
  I think you have to give it a try. Stop kicking and get on with it.
• I simply want to use this opportunity to do something with my career that I have always wanted to do. Being offered a role which i only did for 6 months over 10 years ago is somewhat of a kick in the teeth for all the work I have done in between. Just to clarify - my current role is dicussing personal development with our management and senior management community and coaching them to increase their own effectiveness - it doesnt involve any work with the employees talking to our customers on the phones (which is what I have been offered)
  Therefore I mentally decided that I should leave - now why should i resign and get nothing for this? Afterall, my company are doing their upmost to refuse redundancy to everyone in my position (approx 13 people across all three sites) simply to save money. Once in the new role it would only be a matter of time before one stat isnt at the required level and I would be 'managed out' of the business as Ive been in countless disciplinaries at work to know this can be done for ANY person working in our office if someone wants them out enough.
  If they had one ounce of morals they would realise that this is an embarrassing offer of employment considering the work I complete on a daily basis. I work to KPI's/targets in my current role - i just know from first hand experience that sales targets is an area not for me!
  In our office people who dont contribute (get sales daily) are highlighted and pressured constantly. Managers are regularly shouting across the floors for more sales etc. I have never worked in a sales environment and would never want to. The pressure is tremendous in our office in this area. Getting customers to part with money for products they may (or more likely) may not want is difficult and I have a conscience - unlike the majority of our top sales performers so would feel uneasy pressuring little old ladies and vulnerable customers into parting with more money.
  With 2 children and a new mortgage this is a stressful time for us all. I simply want this to turn out best for me - not best for my employer.
  I would also add that my current boss is the most demotivating person possible and I have raised 2 grievances over her attitude in the last 12 months. The lack of action over her has caused me to want out - sorry if this has been misinterpreted in some way as monmey grabbing. Its a simple choice between starting back on the bottom rung of a ladder ive spent 10 years climbing or try to get my employers to realise their offer is not suitable or reasonable.
  Again I apologise if I came across differently to how I intended.
• I think you are missing the point of business.
  It is ALL about money. Of course they are going to try and save it. No, they won't act with morals.
  Your wishes are directly at odds with your employer and this will turn out badly.
  Go see a no win no fee employment solicitor. Their opinion may differ - they may think you have a case. IF they will take it on a NWNF basis you may be in with a shot. If they won't, you'll know it is a very long shot.
  With kids and a mortgage however I'd be setting my mind to do well in the new job to keep the bills paid until a better role came along.