Oh still doesnt get it!

A question about : Oh still doesnt get it!

Will start off with some background info. About 4 years ago OH had amassed about Ј80k's worth of debt (very long tale) At the time I was in a very dark lonely place and made the mistake of being talked into a re-mortgage to clear his debts. I cut down on everything, worked extra and have cleared all my credit cards and a loan. He appears to be seriously in arrears, which he refuses to discuss.
The real problems at the moment are Frederickson Int, he owes about Ј15k and either Cougar or Transcomm whom he owes about Ј4k, these are seriously behind (I have read the letters) Other accounts are roughly up to date. He is refusing to speak to, or write to anyone and thinks I will sort it out. Whilst I appreciate that a marriage is a partnership, I feel he has done nothing to help himself and I refuse to pay his debts.
My biggest worry is the house, if either of these companies take him to court, would they be likely to apply for immediate charging orders, or could we be forced to sell the house? We havfe 4 children, 3 still at school
Many thanks for any advice.
NANB.

Best answers:

• UNfortunatley, by rolling the debt into the mortgage, you made yourself responsible for his debts. I'm afraid that for better or worse, you're involved in this now.
  Is there anyway you can get a decent statement of accounts from the debts and post it? Perhaps we can offer some more targetted advice.
• Thanks for your reply Firewyrm. The amount of the remortgage I know I'm Stuck with (please don't tell me I was stupid, I know!) Its the accounts which are now in arrears I am not prepared to help with. Will look around for statements and get back
  NANB.
• Here goes, list of creditors:
  Captial One (with Fredrickson Int.) Limit Ј14000. Balance Ј15976 all due
  American Express (with Cougar) Limit Ј4500 Balance Ј4002 all due
  Lloyds tsb Limit Ј3850 Balance Ј3768 Pyt Ј106.37 due tomorrow
  Santander Limit Ј4000 Balance Ј2627 Pyt Ј78.86 due next week
  Creation Limit Ј3150 Balance Ј2916 Pyt Ј124.00 due 2/11
  RBS Limit Ј3820 Balance Ј3844 Pyt Ј168.26 due 4/11
  tsb loan Ј13000 Balance Ј12293 Pyt Ј288 due 25/11
  tsb O/d Ј500 ish
  Looks frightening! It is the first 2 I am most concerned about
• OK. I think you need the services of CCCS here. There is obviously no way you will informally pay this lot off yourself, so you need to come to arrangements with your creditors.
  Speak to CCCS as a matter of urgency and they will be able to advise in detail and contact your creditors to negotiate.
  However, I caution you that this arrangment will have quite strict conditions, and one of those is that you live within the budget for the term of the arrangement.
  You need to get your husband on board, because at those sort of values, the credit card companies will almost certainly be seeking CCJs in very short order, if not an outright charging order against the house. They might be seeking bankrupsy against your husband and either way, its a bleak outlook unless you do something decisive to get control.
• I wish I could get OH on board!! That is the biggest problem. Tried discussing it last night and was told to mind my own business, he would sort it when he was ready. I asked when was that likely to be? reply "soon" I then lost it completely and pointed out that we were in danger of losing the house. His reply "If you don't loke it you can always leave!!" Will try CCCS later but don't know how far I'll get as the accounts are not mine. Only joint finalcial matters are the mortgage and a joint bank account with about Ј10.00 in (never use it) All bills are paid from my account and are up to date. (deep sigh)
• Are those all debts he run up since you paid of the last ones with the re-mortgage? It looks like you need some advice from CCCS on this as you are concerned bout the house.
• Thanks KJ. No these debts are the ones which were not repaid out of the re-mortgage. We were unable to borrow enough to clear all his debts (sould I say thankfully) so this is the residue. Will be contacting CCCS as soon as all children out of house. NANB
• This sound like it's far more serious than normal.
  Please go to the council and explain that you are in a vulnerable situation. They will then be able to point you in the direction of more 'targeted' help via local groups of women. If what is happening is what I suspect, you need to start making plans to extricate yourself entirely from this situation.
  Bottom line, short of a religious epiphany, your husband wont change. He will continue to bleed your combined finances until he has destroyed you both. For your own health and future, you must seek professional help and advice right now.
  This isnt a debt problem now. Thats a symptom of a wider issue which I suggest you start making plans to deal with.
• I've just quickly added up this additional debt which comes to another Ј45k, has he amassed this on top of the Ј80k you remortgaged for only 4 years ago?
  I think aside from the issue of how to tackle this astonishing amount again in such a short space of time and fact that your OH is not on board, you also need to take a step back and look at your lifestyles, is this something that you have just become aware of or have you known since the last remortgage that he has continued to spend beyond his means and month by month continue to accrue debt?
  It's one thing tackling the debt, it's another totally changing your lives to learn from the experience and learn to live within your means, what is he spending all this money on? and why?, can you give us more information? as if you both as a couple can't get to the bottom of this and break the cycle your financial future looks incredibly bleak
• Ј45k is a lot to have run up in 4 years.... does he have anything to show for it ...is there a gambling issue?? if nothing to show for it and no other issues then have the funds been used for living expenses?? if so then it would seem you are maybe BOTH living outwith your means.. whilst you feel it has nothing to do with you and isnt your debt if funds have been used for 'family' I could maybe understand his reluctance to talk about it etc if you have already said to him is nothing to do with you and you are not paying it etc.... maybe an soa would be a good idea....
• Thanks everyone. No the Ј45k has not been ammassed since the remortgage, it was what was left. Due to severe mental health issues at that time I was not well enough to delve into exactly how it had come about, he has always denied gambling, drugs, drink etc.
  Latterly it just seems to be interest and charges going on each month nothing that is being bought, if that makes sense.
  After the remortgage, I tightened everything I could managing to clear all my credit cards and a loan and even accumulate some savings in order to "fireproof" myself and the children. He has not been prepared to change, as an example all mine and the childrens clothes come from Mr. T or Primck. He gets his suits from Burtons/Next. So although I have made what changes I can, he has not been prepared to.
  Scotslass, I did say I would help him sort it out, but this time would not be enjoined in paying it.
• hi there Notanothernewbie,
  I think that it has come to an impass here. You really need to know why he has spent the money. The only reason why I say is because I am a recovering gambler who knows the tell tale signs of these things.
  I am nearly debt free now and have scaled back what I gamble but unless you really know whats going on, even when he has paid back all the debts there is a chance that he could run up that debt again.
• I'm afraid I agree with Firewyrm this is a controlling, angry man. Domestic abuse isn't always physical violence. Please talk to Women's Aid or a similar organisation. If he sees that you're prepared to walk away he might realise how serious this is. You at least need a plan to look after your kids if it does get as far as charging orders, bankruptcy etc.
• Hi,
  Your situation sounds a little like mine a few years ago.
  Unfortunately I can't really help with the financial side of things as I didn't have a mortgage or children but your relationship sounds similar.
  My ex-husband racked up a huge amount of debts over the years we were together and I could never really get to the bottom of why. I came on this site a lot asking for advice but could not take this on without his co-operation. He was always evasive of questions asked and would say he would sort it out but never did. Over time I ended up with large debts too due to trying to help him out (he'd promise to pay me back or pay the monthly payments but never did) and in the end it got so bad we ended up with no money for food or petrol on pay day (despite having a fairly good income).
  I eventually came to my senses and left. It wasn't an easy decision to make (and I imagine with children it is even harder) but looking back now it was the best decision I ever made and I shudder to think where we would have been if I'd stayed. Like other posts have said, I realised that it was emotional and financial abuse from my OH and he had little respect for me at all to have put me in that position (although I also understand I let myself be put in it) and to spend my money with no second thought, putting himself first all the time. I was blinkered at the time but not anymore!
  I have now paid all of my debts off, am in control of my money, am in a very happy, secure relationship and the weight has just been lifted off of me.
  I suppose the point of this post is just to say please look at yourself and your own mental health and what is best for you rather than be putting your OH first. You won't be able to sort out your current financial situation without OH's co-operation and it sounds like he is not going to give you this.
  HTH, sorry if you feel I am talking out of turn.
• Many thanks for sharing that Blueneleh, I certainly don't think you are talking out of turn. I have filled in the CCCS on line remedy and they are recommending a DMP. Only prob new is to get OH to agree!!
  It looks like the account which was with Cougar, has now been passed to AIC, don't know wheterh that is a good or bad thing.
  As far as rehousing goes, because our house i jointly owned and I have some savings, they would only help out if I was actually and not intentionally homeless, and that would be a Refuge. I have enough put by to privately rent somewhere and pay a deposit, should the need arise, I would ensure that my name was taken off all the utilities before leaving though. Leaving would be a lst resort though as it would have implications for my job as I work shifts.
• I can add any constructive to the good advice that has already been given, I just wanted to say that I feel for you, and hope that you are able to find a solution for you and your children soon.
  Fae
• That could so easily have been me posting. MyOH also ran up a large amount of debt and could not account for it. It is now being repaid slowly. One piece of advice I would give you is to have all important documents, ie passports, birth certificates, medical cards in one place, so that if you are forced to leave at short notice, you can just grab them quickly.
  I do feel for you and hope you can resolve this.
  Keep posting.x
• SOA looks frightening. The outgoings quoted are for a half of everything, I pay the other half. The mobile phones are for 4 contract phones, 3 for children one for OH. There is no amount inserted for car tax, insurance or maintenance as the car is a lease car.
  Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet
  Household Information
  Number of adults in household........... 3
  Number of children in household......... 3
  Number of cars owned.................... 3
  Monthly Income Details
  Monthly income after tax................ 2400
  Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
  Benefits................................ 0
  Other income............................ 0
  Total monthly income.................... 2400
  Monthly Expense Details
  Mortgage................................ 452
  Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
  Rent.................................... 0
  Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
  Council tax............................. 70
  Electricity............................. 50
  Gas..................................... 50
  Oil..................................... 0
  Water rates............................. 25
  Telephone (land line)................... 23
  Mobile phone............................ 50
  TV Licence.............................. 6
  Satellite/Cable TV...................... 11
  Internet Services....................... 0
  Groceries etc. ......................... 300
  Clothing................................ 50
  Petrol/diesel........................... 250
  Road tax................................ 0
  Car Insurance........................... 0
  Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 0
  Car parking............................. 10
  Other travel............................ 35
  Childcare/nursery....................... 120
  Other child related expenses............ 25
  Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 11
  Pet insurance/vet bills................. 0
  Buildings insurance..................... 15
  Contents insurance...................... 8
  Life assurance ......................... 15
  Other insurance......................... 38
  Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 10
  Haircuts................................ 8
  Entertainment........................... 50
  Holiday................................. 0
  Emergency fund.......................... 0
  Total monthly expenses.................. 1682
  
  Assets
  Cash.................................... 0
  House value (Gross)..................... 138000
  Shares and bonds........................ 100
  Car(s).................................. 0
  Other assets............................ 0
  Total Assets............................ 138100
  
  Secured & HP Debts
  Description....................Debt......Monthly.. .APR
  Mortgage...................... 118000...(452)......4.24
  Total secured & HP debts...... 118000....-.........-
  Unsecured Debts
  Description....................Debt......Monthly.. .APR
  Amex (with aci)................4002......98........0
  Cap 1 (with frederick..........15096.....480.......0
  Ltsb...........................3768......107...... .0
  ltsb od........................500.......0.........0
  ltsb loan......................11800.....288.......0
  creation.......................2916......132...... .0
  santander......................1373......68....... .0
  rbs............................3844......169...... .0
  Total unsecured debts..........43299.....1342......-
  
  Monthly Budget Summary
  Total monthly income.................... 2,400
  Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,682
  Available for debt repayments........... 718
  Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 1,342
  Amount short for making debt repayments. -624
  Personal Balance Sheet Summary
  Total assets (things you own)........... 138,100
  Total HP & Secured debt................. -118,000
  Total Unsecured debt.................... -43,299
  Net Assets.............................. -23,199
  Created using the SOA calculator at www.stoozing.com.
  Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using IE browser.
• So just to clarify, this means you spend 600 a month on groceries? And nearly 500 on petrol? That is an awful lot.
  Sorry to bring this up, but if he is wracking up this debt and can't account for it then is he spending it on someone else?
  I think that you need to lay it on the line to him. That he has until x date to sort this eg 1st January? Or something? And if he hasn't made a SERIOUS effort by then, then you will be leaving. And then do it. Your aren't living your are existing. You deserve better than this.
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