A question about : New Personal Representative needs a little advice
Hi, All
I'm hoping you'll be able to give me some options on a few bits and pieces.
A little background on where my queries are coming from - my Mam died intestate couple of months ago, and I have been in negotiation (well, that's one word for it) with my toxic siblings to ensure that I administer her very small estate (does not need probate). My Dad died a few months earlier and sentimental value items disappeared, despite his leaving a will, which has been very upsetting for me, but not worth going to court over. I am pretty much expecting the same to have already happened with some of my Mam's things, too. Anyway, the sheer awfulness of my siblings in the run up and aftermath to both deaths meant that I could not stomach attending either of the funerals (in fact, I was told the incorrect time for one, and not told at all about the other 
).
So...my queries as a brand new personal representative, with this, rather fraught, family background are -
1. I assume it is normal for the after funeral meal to be paid by the estate? I have been passed a receipt but given that I was not aware nor invited, does part of this have to come out of my share of the estate, too. I know how petty this must sound but it really would stick in my craw to have to pay a third of this meal for people I consider to be no better than thieves really, and who have made my life such a misery at an already miserable time.
2. Alternatively, if I had a little memorial meal for me and those who have provided me with support throughout the illness and death - could that be charged to the estate? These are people, who in more normal circumstances, would have been at the funeral to support me, and would have been offered a little sustenance afterwards.
3. If I do find, as I am expecting, that Mam's wee stash of jewellery has been removed illegally, can I deduct anything from their share of what remains of the estate? What would happen if I did? I know it would be difficult to value, but again, I'm at a loss why this should go unpunished. There seems no recourse anywhere unless court and high costs are involved.
4. The remaining items are apparently currently held somewhere safe - I don't hold an ebay account and was thinking of simply car booting everything except the photos (there is not much - mostly clothes, a little furniture) - is this an ok suggestion? I'm aware of my responsibilities to maximise the estate where possible, but honestly, these things really could be charity shopped, except I'd probably simply invite a load of angst if I suggest that!
For my queries 1 to 3, I'm sure the sensible answer is to forget it all, rise above it, show some dignity and move on 
...but I'd really like to know what you think is acceptable or not. I've read many of the threads over the past few months and have been impressed with the kind, considered, advice offered. It's also made me feel a little better that it's not just my family that misbehaves in these situations...not that that is any consolation really, is it?
many thanks in advance.
LB xx
Best answers:
- How much are we talking about in total? (estimate is fine)
Have you assertained if there are any debts, rent, council Credit, cards DWP etc.
NO house?
LEt face reality with the contents if there is nothing of value it is worth the effort to try and raise a few Ј at acar boot, will that cover the costs of fuel etc?
As for the practical advise on the wake can't see there any rules that say it can only have one, you pull in the assset pay the debts including the wake(s) and funerals take out your expences( travel at 45ppm in your own car) distribute whats left.
are you sure you won't need a grant? - For your queries 1 to 3, I agree the sensible answer is to forget it all, rise above it, show some dignity and move on. (I think you know that)
With regard to the rest I'd just assume it has negligible value and charity shop it - OK back to basics to try to address one of your other
questions.
The basic job of an administrator is to establish an inventory of assets.
Some will be easy like a bank account, some will be worth little like a bit of furniture no one want, some like the jewellery might need valuing.
Is there any way you can establish the value of the stuff that has disappeared or even prove it's existence?
any photos of it being worn insurance valuations or policies that have made reference to the insurance value etc.
you get the idea.
Now the second issue is the distribution of the estate.
Once you have a list of assets(even those you can't find but can show evidence they existed) a list of all debts which hopefully are less than the assets, there are fairly clear rules for intestate estates on how the residue gets distributed.
Now the issue is can you assume the missing items are in the hands of one or other or both of the other beneficiaries and make a distribution based on that?
Another angle is to say the rest of the stuff is worthless and going to charity if they say no its worth something say 2oh how much", and they inherit it at that values as part of their share......
Now the family situation the legalities, how much you want to negotiate, put in writing etc.
will be something you want to consider very carefully. - No...I've been mulling over your post for a wee while, and I'm afraid I'm having to accept that there is no real evidence these things existed.
They weren't/aren't worth anything much - just sentimental value, so have never needed an insurance valuation. It galls me that they should be offered to all three of us for choosing what we'd like to keep as a keepsake, yet one has decided to keep them.
It is just one beneficiary. The other seems to have decided to bury his head in the sand and I can only assume doesn't mind being stolen from by a sibling.
I understand what you are saying, as without evidence of existence, I can't really yell "stop thief!"
Thanks for taking the emotion out of it, and presenting me back with the cold hard facts. Hard as it is to swallow.
LB xx - I'm sorry you've been put in this situation Lavender, families can be awful.
You say it's been agreed that you take on the administration? I worry that you will find an argument with your sibling arises at every turn so be prepared for that.
Another funeral tea is a lovely idea (and it is truly awful that you were not told about the funeral) but that will come out of the estate and be argued, same with disposal of the contents as you say is already arising, same with any expenses you charge.
Realistically if you do this to ensure that all the debts are paid then make sure that is all done first and then distribute whatever may be left. By the time the funeral and any care costs are paid there is not going to be a huge amount of Ј12k left over.
I can't say not to deal with things, but I think in your situation I would be tempted to take the family photos and leave the sibling who has already cleared what they want out of the house to deal with the rest.
A polite letter about the jewellery asking that you be given a chance to have something to remember your mother by might be worth a try. - Morning All,
A little update from me, and a couple of queries, if you don't mind.
I have made progress this week in that I have managed to open an executors account with my bank (Santander - unexpectedly very helpful, bless them) and I have received a cheque for the closing balances of various accounts (still needing and waiting for the closing statements so I can see what was income and what was savings/interest). I have also received a cheque payable to the funeral company.
My queries are -
1. Even though nothing else is sorted, am I ok to send this cheque now to the funeral director?
2. If this debt is paid now, do I still take this money into consideration when trying to calculate what is owed to the social services? My mam was in a care home for approx 8mths and I am suspecting that her pension and any other income should have been paid to social services, but hasn't been. The amount of the funeral may tip Mam over into an amount of savings that could mean that part of her savings should also be taken into account for her care. I'm working a bit blind until I get the accounts statements, I guess. Maybe I should wait until I receive these?
3. The building society letter states that the "where the closure amount refers to ISAs (which it does for the majority part), the account was transferred at the date of death to a net rate ISA holding account. Please contact us if you need a tax statement for the holding account." My questions on this are - do I need to get a tax statement? And if I do, what do I then do with it? My mam was a pensioner, so shouldn't pay tax on savings, I'm assuming.
And finally, I've invited my close support friends to a wee wake in a couple of weeks time. I feel so much better for doing this, regardless of any cr&p that may follow later.
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
LB xx - Pensioners pay tax like anyone else, including on savings. It may well be that her total income was less than the personal allowance, so wouldn't pay any.
But the ISAs now belong to her estate, not her, and it's the estate that is due to pay the tax on them and if I recall correctly the estate doesn't have a personal allowance, so what's been deducted will be correct. Just file details away. If it's a small amount you won't need a tax statement - Not sure about the funeral bill - it is first call on the estate though. If the estate turns out not to have enough money to pay for it then whoever arranged the funeral pays - sounds like it wasn't you, but you could still be blamed for paying it out when you shouldn't.
I'm not understanding about the care home - who was paying her fees? Or were they mounting up, not being paid?
I'd be inclined to pay nothing out until you know what you are faced with. - The funeral bill makes no difference to assets prior to death where DWP will be interested in, it is a post death expense.
The funeral has first grab on the assets so can be paid.
From date of death the estate becomes a tax entity in its own right and does get a personal allowance so get the tax statements for each account where any tax was paid.
When you get all the assets in, a simple letter with a table of all income received and the tax paid will usually do the job and get any refund due or a bill if under paid.
You will get an R27(get a copy from HMRC web site) form to fill in for the tax up to date of death, if simple HMRC probably won't ask for a full return again it will be a case of taxable income any tax paid and they will sort it out for you.. - Thanks, All.
I'll ring HMRC next week, and get whatever I need from them. I also intend to ring DWP to ensure they are aware, and check in case there has been any overpayment of pension etc.
Hopefully, I'll get the closing bank statements soon, and make a start clarifying what is owed to social services.
I appreciate the helpful comments today, all very useful. No doubt I'll have more queries as I go..
LB xx
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