Need Help From Anyone Who Lives In Glasgow Tenements!

A question about : Need Help From Anyone Who Lives In Glasgow Tenements!

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some info and advice on block buildings insurance from others who live in tenement buildings in Glasgow. While remortgaging recently I had to get a copy of our policy and looking into it I think it's very expensive. We used to pay for our own buildings cover seperately but a few years ago someone from the factor talked everyone into agreeing to a block buildings policy as he said this would be a better policy for us. We live in a circa 1900 tenement with 6 flats in it. I don't know very much about these block policies and was wondering if anyone could tell me what the going rate for these are? I know it's better to have common insurance in case anything happens but we seem to be paying through the roof for it and was just hoping some people in similar properties could tell me what they pay so I can compare.

It is a Norwich Union Policy which costs us Ј22.12 a month and we pay it through the factor. It insures the building for Ј926,371 but I'm a bit worried about this as when we got our survey done for the remortgage they put down Ј220,000 as the cost of rebuilding but if that Ј926,371 is spread over the 6 houses our share is only Ј154,395 - does this mean that we are underinsured for our buildings cover? We have a separate contents policy with Royal Sunalliance which costs us Ј15.33 per month which means we're paying Ј37.45 a month or Ј449.40 a year overall for b & c cover. This seems a really high amount when I do searches online and get quotes. I have just done a quote at Tescos as I'd read about the half price offer in martin's tips and it seems there's less than Ј3 of a difference between taking contents only or taking buildings & contents and they insure your buildings up to Ј1,000,000 - that would be just for my house!! This can't be right - how can there only be Ј3 of a difference when I'm paying Ј22?!

I don't think it's possible to opt out of this block policy but I was just looking for some opinions - are we being ripped off or is this a decent price? Also my mum works for Norwich Union - do you think if we have to keep this policy she would be eligible for an employee discount even though its a block policy? Really quite confused by all this. I asked this on the insurance board but as these tenements are so specific to Glasgow I thought I may get more joy on here! Thanks for any help.

Regards

Michelle

Best answers:

• Hi Michelle
  I own a flat in a Glasgow tenement with 6 flats built 1866. We have a block insurance policy with Royal Sun Alliance arranged by the factor and it costs Ј32.78 a year for 2006/07. The flats in the street are a mixture of owner-occupier and tenanted and the factor is the Housing Association that owns the tenanted properties. Don't know who your factor is but they are notorious for their high charges, whereas in my case the Housing Association is a charity and probably non-profit making. I do think I get a very good deal, mind you. I don't know what the level of cover is (could probably find out), but I'm not too concerned as I am sure it will cover the cost of rebuilding as the Housing Association would not want to lose their investment in the properties. I wonder if the cost of the policy premium depends on the size of the "block" covered by the policy. In my case, there will be a lot of properties covered - possibly one side of the street. Is yours just for the six flats in your close? Or maybe my factor has just negotiated a very good deal.
  Not sure about the combined buildings/contents policy thing or about Tesco's policy.
  I have my contents separate - cost is Ј139.45 which is a bit cheaper than the Ј183.96 you are paying. Mine is through esure online so might be worth shopping around.
  Doubt if companies like Norwich Union give staff discounts, by the way.
  Hope this is of some help.
• I own a tenement flat too but we're unfactored (the other residents in the close had opted for that before I moved here). Therefore there is no block policy, just individual buildings insurance.
  Being unfactored has caused no real problems, other than slight difficulty getting everyone to cough up for door entry system repairs etc and general tidyness. I am curious now though as to whether the lack of a block insurance policy would be an issue if anything happened. Does anyone have any info?
  Incidentally, I just took out that Tesco policy and I've saved nearly Ј14 a month on builings/contents combined.
• Hi newby money saver and delerium,
  Thanks for replying - I've had this thread up a while and was beginning to think no-one else lived in Glasgow tenements
  Wow newby money saver - £32.78 a year!! That's unbelievable - that's half of what we're paying a quarter, it's like a month and a half's cover to us! Really shocked by that. Your close sounds like a normal tenement building albeit built slightly earlier than ours (circa 1900) so I can't see why there's such a huge difference!
  Our factor is Hacking and Patterson - the new bill came in today actually, £97.36 for this quarter (£65.34 for the buildings insurance and £27.25 for their management fee for the period!) Anyone else have them as their factor? What do you think of the prices? I'm really just trying to gauge what other people in similar properties are paying for this as I feel we're paying over the odds (even more so now I've seen your post nms!) Our policy does definitely only cover our 6 flats in this one close so the fact you have a housing association as your factor and they may get a discount for insuring a lot of housing might have a lot to do with your cheap price but even so it still makes what we're paying look extreme.
  I'm not as concerned about the contents insurance and I know I can get that a little cheaper and will be looking into it but it's still a small amount compared to the buildings. Our factor changed us from an even more expensive policy to NU so we were actually paying even more last year! Norwich Union definitely do staff discounts for normal insurance policies but I don't know if this being a shared policy with the whole close would mean we couldn't get a discount on it.
  Delerium I posted this up in the insurance forum as well and I'll paste below what someone wrote about block buildings policies and the problems that can arise from having separate policies:
  Quote:
• This is an important issue in Scotland.
  Luckily I have no longer to deal with ' factors ' ( who are basically agents for the owners in a tenement block of flats ) .
  My memories of dealing with them in the past involved odd deals with building maintenance companies who charged well over the odds for their work (shared so it didn't look so bad ) plus inflated insurance fees from which they got commision.
  When dealing with these leeches I would think that a robust approach and the threat of withdrawal from the factoring agreemant will produce better terms.
• Hi all
  Frascera has a very good point about factors as I've heard lots of stories from friends who have had bad experiences with them. One person I knew, when the people in her close got really fed up with it, they took it on themselves and she ended up setting up her own Property Management company (ie factors) - poacher turned gamekeeper!!
  On the block versus individual insurances, I would definitely be concerned about the "common parts" - the close itself, the roof (doesn't just belong to the top floor flats), etc. How are those covered if you don't have a block policy?
  :confused:
• Hi All,
  I've been a bit concerned about this for a while too. I'm in a tenement of 10 flats circa 1900 and have just paid about Ј100 (If I remember correctly) for the block buildings insurance. Not the most expensive it seems, but the excess is Ј250. To avoid this hefty excess you have to pay an additional Ј50.
  This still seems like a rip off to me when comparing individual and housing association charges for buildings insurance.
  The factoring situation drives me nuts, but unfortunately with 10 flats to contend with it's just too many people to manage self-factoring.
  I have to agree with the previous comments - decent factors are thin on the ground, if in existence at all.
  Incidentally, I managed to get contents insurance for just Ј84, then a Ј50 cashback from Barclays. Try Halifax for a good price if the Barcalys offer doesn't work with your renewal (I'm not sure if Barclays are still doing the price promise thing though).
  Michelle
• I too live in a Glasgow tenement and we are seriously considering ditching our factor and doing the work ourselves. Are there printed guidelines that we can get hold of to make sure we cover everything? Thanks!
• Hi everyone,
  Thanks for the replies. I totally agree with what everyone's saying about the factor's - they seem to get money for nothing most of the time! I'm not sure about going unfactored though - I don't think most of the neighbours in this close would want to do it though as some are elderly and like to stick to what they know (even in the late 80s when the council was offering to clean the buildings for free they refused this as the didn't want change which leaves this the only building on the street that looks black while the other look red!)
  Electrocat - when you say you're block buildings insurance is £100 I take it that's £100 a year and if so that's nearly 3 times less than ours!! Who is that with? That you have to pay another £50 to get the excess brought down does seem a bit of a con though. Also who did you find the £84 contents insurance with - that seems like a great deal?! D'you mind me asking what level of contents cover that's for?
  This whole issue is very complex but the more replies I get the more I feel we're definitely paying over the odds - would be nice to hear if anyone else out there is paying as much as us as so far it seems not. Thanks for the help.
  Regards
  Michelle
• I posted a question a couple of days ago about self-factoring but I've managed to find the answer myself. In case it's of use to anyone else out there who might be considering getting rid of their factor and doing it themselves, there is a useful bookelt called Common Repair, Common Sense available free from Communities Scotland. Their phone number is 0131 313 0044. Good luck!
• Hi Michelle,
  Yes, I checked the figures last night - it cost Ј104 basic plus the Ј52 to avoid the excess (per year). The Insurer is Norwich Union and worryingly the sum insured is 'a minimum of Ј80,000' to rebuild (I have no idea whether this is a breakdown per flat or for the whole building - I would hope per flat). The factor hasn't passed on any info regarding the coverage of the policy other than this - I'm just trusting that they know what they're doing (possibly wishful thinking on my part). As long as the rebuild costs are covered I suppose.
  My contents insurance is with Barclays, but they price matched my renewal quote from the Halifax. I have a basic policy with non of the extras other than legal protection cover (I don't feel the need for accidental cover as they automatically cover TV etc. without the extra accidental coverage). The sum insured is Ј50k (Ј10k of which, valuables & Ј2 1/2k single item limit). Their wasn't a great deal of difference between Halifax and Barclays except B impose an excess of Ј75 and H had no excess. I can't remember for sure, but H might have been unlimited cover.
  Hope this helps,
  Michelle
• Hi Michelle,
  Just seen your post. Our insurer is also Norwich Union yet ours costs approx £270 a year so your £150 doesn't sound so bad. Ours insures the building for £926,371 so that's about £155000 for each house so I would assume the £80,000 figure has to be per flat. Is it a large flat you're in - how many bedrooms? As far as info about your policy goes the factor has to disclose this to you - I just phoned ours up and asked them to send a copy of the policy out. Try that so you can get a good idea of what your cover really is. I'm still quite confused about the whole thing but the general idea I'm getting is that we are definitely paying more than others in similar properties for our buildings insurance
  Thanks for the info regarding the contents insurance. We just got our renewal paperwork in this week so I had a closer look at our policy and was shocked to see we're only covered for £18,000 worth of contents yet we're paying £196 a year for this (and that's with a £65 loyalty discount!) So going to have to do something about that! I've got a few quotes from the sites you mentioned and the cheapest I could find was around £150 for 3 or 4 times the cover we've got now (we're looking for accidental cover and cover outside the home as well though so I don't think we'll be able to find a great price like yours!) I'm going to phone our provider and see if I can get any sort of deal out of them. Thanks for the help.
  Regards
  Michelle
• I live in a Glasgow tenement of 9 flats. When i bought my flat, there was no factor for the building, so I took on the responsibility for repairs etc. myself. I subsequently bought another flat in the same close to rent out. We do not hold a common insurance policy, but insure our flats individually. Several years ago, I formed a Residents Association and arranged for each resident to contribute a fixed amount each month into a Bank account. This covered all repairs etc.
  All went well until at the end of last year, there was a fire in the basement which caused damage throughout the close. Again, I took it upon myself to sort out the cleaning and redecorating and the insurance claim. At first, my Insurance company agreed to pay all costs and reclaim one ninth from each of the other insurance companies. In the event, they went back on that decision, but each company did agree to pay their share, except one company who insisted that the policy only covers the flat, not common areas.
  Unfortunately, the decorator 'disappeared' on completion of the job and payment of the monies, without giving me a receipt. I am now in the position of trying to get payment from three of the insurance companies who demand a receipt.
  The moral of the tale? Ditch your Factor, arrange a common policy, and watch out for rogue tradesmen!
• Hi All, Very interesting to read all your posts. We have a common policy through Hacking and Paterson and although I dont know the exact details right now, I know its pretty hefty. Also we're having terrible trouble with tradesmen they sent out and the bills from them are extortionate. Anyone else having problems with Hacking and Paterson? I've sent them 2 letters one in July, the last on 15th August, they havent replied to either. I know they got the 15th August one, because I enclosed the payment with it and that was taken out of my bank 2 days later. I like the sound of D & I Scott, does anyone know if its easy enough to change factors? I mean, does the new factor deal with all the paperwork and contacting the previous one? Sorry if I'm butting in to your post, but I'm kinda new to this and am not sure of the protocol.
  Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Marcella
• i have the same trouble with hacking and paterson. they sent out a tradesman to fix a step at the entrance and they basically did a botch patch job instead of what we assumed was a real repair. it cost a lot too. they also charge a hefty fee for a gardener to come and snip off a twig or two (the lawn never grows much). In the old days the residents used to meet with the factor regularly. now most of the flats are let out and the owners don't really care. I get the idea you would first need approval of all owners before you can change factors.
  Anyone with a scottish law background know?
  (on the plus side the block insurance seems good and they get each owner to actualoy agree to repairs eventually which would be hard without a factor).
  You can read about some options in: The Tenement Handbook by John Gilbert and Ann Flint.(published by assist archiects)
• Probably a bit late to bump this thread but I hope everyone is watching BBC1 Scotland re factors.
• Here we go...
  https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7174631.stm
• Don't live in a tenement, but know folk who have Hacking and Paterson as factors and are not impressed!!