Liverpool JL Airport

A question about : Liverpool JL Airport

I have recently received a PCN from VCS for stopping to pick a family member up. I used the airports free for 20 mins car park but due to family member not getting to the car park in time, I left to go wait outside the airport boundary. On leaving the car park I saw my family member walking towards car park, so I stopped to pick him up. I turned off the main roadway into a another property entrance, not blocking any traffic what so ever.

I have received the PCN with the relevant details, but after doing some research, I am unsure whether to appeal directly to VCS as the named driver or not I would rather not ignore in case it goes further.

I understand I will lose my appeal, and probably the appeal to the IAS.

I have attached a photo of the PCN (sorry for bad quality) and the sign, which I had to go back to, to check. Not very easy to read from a distance when travelling in a car, makes it harder when the signs are on the passenger side, and not the central reservation!

Any info much appreciated, as I do understand the law has changed last couple of years, and also the issue with byelaws, which I have read contradicting information on. I have read lots of information and seen successful POPLA letters, but as these are no longer accepting appeals to POPLA i'm unsure the bet course of action.

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Best answers:

• the law did change in england and wales with the introduction of POFA 2012 on relevant land
  BUT JLA is an airport and not relevant land , so POFA 2012 does not apply
  but as you say , VCS jumped ship to the IPC as they were getting spanked at popla , so although you may appeal you will likely lose and get debt collector letters for 6 years
  use the search word JLA in the search nox to find dozens or hundreds of JLA threads, but if this is a recent PCN then only look at ones that are being referred to the IPC and IAS , not the older popla ones
• You should also consider writing complaints to your MP, the local papers and the DVLA .
  Many people have gone down this route .... the more that do the better, try searching the forums for such.
  My thread re DVLA is here
  https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5130131
  there are many more.
  Ralph
• Same as what happened to me here: forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5177258
  Redx: What did you mean when you said he'll likely lose his appeal? Do you mean he will need to pay the money? I thought we had nothing to worry about here?
  Or did you mean VCS will reject his appeal and he'll just get annoying letters, but won't have to pay anything?
• nobody can predict the future, so nobody can tell you if money will be paid out or not
  ask Mr Beavis , he is in the coa in london next week over his PE parking invoice
  if you have to ask me about why anybody including you will lose an appeal at the IAS , then you have not read enough threads about the IAS, its even mentioned in the NEWBIES sticky thread in the popla/IAS post (post #3)
  I predict that VCS will turn down all of your appeals
  I then predict that if you appeal to the IAS that the un-named assessor will also turn down your appeals
  I then predict you will receive debt collector letters for up to 6 years
  I cannot predict if anyone will pay
  I cannot predict if VCS or JLA will try court (like Excel do, or PE do , or UKCPS sometimes do , or ARMTRAC sometimes do)
  you are mistaking the peocess of appealing and debt collection with paying , I dont make that distinction, paying is a separate issue, sometimes decided wayyyyyyy after the court date , like for example , just before or after the CCJ
  which idiot told you that you have nothing to worry about here ? where did they say it ? (link it)
  does this idiot think they can predict that VCS may not try court, or that they get a judge to rule in their favour ? (again please link it)
  is this idiot taking bets on the Beavis case ? (please link it)
• sister companies, so they tend to get mixed up a lot
  Excel do take people to court, so its possible that VCS may well do too, seeing as the same directors own them both (or some of them do) - there is another one or two as well in the same overall "company" - maybe CONKAI ? all are now in the IPC
  JLA is VCS , not excel, but the paperwork may have the wrong details on it
  there are leiuterally hundreds of JLA posts on here, I have read them for the last 2 years, plus seen many popla appeals where they lost, and it was on TV a few weeks ago on RIP OFF BRITAIN, might even feature on channel 4 tonight for all we know ? (C4 DESPATCHES)
  I believe prankster may be on there too
• Still little confused here, I noticed you named yourself as the keeper, should I name myself as keeper?
  I have read some threads saying I should, some say I should not.
  This being due to relevant land? What is the best likely outcome on my part if I do either options?
• nobody should reveal themselves as driver, (this would be extremely stupid) so the appeals are as keeper , which is what it actually says in the template letter
  example , I could have been the driver !
  so you appeal as keeper to the NTK (Notice To Keeper)
  VCS refuse it
  you appeal to the IAS
  the IAS refuse it
  VCS issue debt collector letters, you refuse it (or ignore it)
  they may involve a debt collection company , you refuse it (or ignore it)
  this goes on for 6 years (harassment - you refuse it (or ignore it))
  sometimes these letters have scary RED WRITING on them
  if at any point you get an LBC or an MCOL , then you fight back
  after 6 years , the statute runs out (they all know this although joe public hasnt got a clue usually, even though the small claims track has been going for years now)
  you could go down the ignore route unless you get an LBC or an MCOL , your choice
  if it gets to court and you win , its game over normally
  if you lost , you pay what the judge says within 28 days, or you may well get a CCJ and escalating costs if you do not pay , this could end up with bailiffs of the sheriffs involved as Court Enforcement Officers , enforcing the judgement
  so hopefully, that is it in simple terms
  JLA is an airport so not relevant land under POFA 2012
  so this system uses the old method of harassing the driver (if known) which has been in place for many years (10 at least) - but does not stop them harassing keepers as they have to harass somebody , so they do so in the hope people are frightened into paying, or naming the driver so they can harass the "culprit"
  so only a fool reveals the driver details in these circumstances, unless they have a damn good reason to do so
• In really simple terms the airport is mostly covered by bylaws. I that there is real law backing up real fines. These cannot be dealt with by private companies. The fine is Ј5.
  VCS maintain that because the laws are old they don't count. So far they haven't been willing to test this in court. They have been willing to send letters from debt collectors threatening to trash your credit rating and seize all your goods. They cannot do this until a court says they can.
  Someday they might take a punt in court. The considered option is this would be foolish. If you are marked as a "hard target" it would be even more foolish. That's why contacting the and mentioning bylaws is a good thing.
• Even if JLA were relevant land keeper liability cannot apply as POFA 2012 only applies to parking charges. Stopping on a road on private land is not parking thus POFA can never be invoked.
• Well I have made my appeal to VCS with relevant points, and not naming the driver
  Will post when I get my declined appeal back
• "You should also consider writing complaints to your MP, the local papers and the DVLA . "
  have you stated this yet?
  I would normally add the land owner ... but JLA appear to be complicit in all this ... not sure why
  Ralph
• You say you turned off the road into another property entrance, can you clarify this as the only turn off is Owen Drive which is beyond their boundary.