Council Car park Ticket Appeal

A question about : Council Car park Ticket Appeal

I have appealed a ticket I was issued on the grounds stated. The council involved have rejected my appeal as set out below and in the letter of rejection state that the missing sign is in place which I know to be incorrect and have photographic evidence taken on the day. I am waiting for the notice to keeper to make a formal appeal.

First does this appeal look OK which they have already rejected and secondly should I mention the photographs with my appeal upon notice to keeper or hold them back for the independent appeal if required.

The contravention did not occur due to :-
1) Unclear / misleading signage layout.
2) Missing Signage.

1) On the first full day of my holiday in your area I entered the xxxxxx xxx Car Park by the entrance on xxxxxx xxx and parked in a disabled bay displaying my blue badge. I read the sign on the pay machine and understood it to indicate I could park free of charge. The first line of wording states (blue badge logo} Disabled Badge Holders must pay to park unless displaying a valid (blue badge logo). I had understood this to mean I could park free of charge and had not noticed the second line of words which are not in line with the top line of text and states xxxxxx District Council Parking Permit. The layout of text on the pay machine is misleading as the word valid is followed by a blue badge logo.

2) Upon leaving the car park via the xxxxxx xxxxx entrance/exit I noticed a sign under the welcome sign at the entrance which states (faded blue Badge logo) CHARGES APPLY TO ALL SPACES. Such a sign is missing at the xxxxx xxx entrance which is the one I used to enter the car park. I have since noticed that other car parks in the area have this sign at the entrance.

Therefore I wish to appeal the parking charge notice on the above stated grounds.

Best answers:

• Almost all first appeals get turned down by Councils because they know the gullible British public will mostly pay up when reoffered the discount. What people don't know is that most formal appeals leading to adjudications win in the end so the odds are in your favour and you certainly have grounds to continue to appeal.
  I would not pay - and BTW it's not a NTK it's an NTO next. When you get the NTO, post a new topic for help to win your appeal with pepipoo posters' help, here:
  https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30
  DO NOT post on pepipoo without pics of the documents (PCN and NTO, all sides, all pages including the back) and a pic of the sign or they can't help you win.
• Thanks Coupon - mad, I will not be paying until I have lost at the independent appeal. As a retired local government officer with over 30 years working in a highways department I am embarrassed to admit that I was caught out by the wording layout on the p&d machine, which, I feel almost amounts to entrapment. and for a desk jockey to claim the sign is in place on site without going to check is indefensible.
• I agree with your description of the wording and hope that an adjudicator will see the ambiguity as well.
• Now on pepipoo
  https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...pic=94158&st=0
• Makes interesting reading - and as there is no discount in play any more (I think?) you may as well go all the way to adjudication.
• This is now at independent appeal stage.Along with their formal rejection letter to me the council sent me photographic evidence that the sign is in place, funny part is would you believe the sign is missing in their photograph as well. They also forgot to enclose details of the independent appeal, only stating they were enclosed which meant I had to ask for them. I refer to this in my appeal as they have committed a procedural impropriety.
• Sounds like you are fairly likely to win, from what you have said. A missing sign and procedural impropriety should make it simple for the adjudicator. Best advice is to turn up in person for the decision - DO NOT rely on a postal decision because that way the adjudicator never sees you, hears from you/realises you are right. Postal decisions from the TPT can go either way as the Adjudicator may misread the evidence or overlook something simple but important. That doesn't happen when you sit there on the other side of the table (it's just a meeting) pointing stuff out politely and firmly and showing yourself to be an honest and reliable witness.
  https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...ic=94158&st=20
  Let us know what happens in the end.
• Perfect attitude and approach to it - I think you'll win!
• Received correspondence from Traffic Penalty Tribunal stating the council should send me a copy of their evidence on or around 17 November if they wish to contest. Nothing yet, seems a little vague date wise. Why does it not say they have until 17 November, if you buy a ticket to park for an hour in a council car park it doesn't say you can stay around an hour and I didn't have around 28 days to lodge an appeal.
• Received the councils evidence pack it runs to 54 pages, no mention what so ever of the missing sign and no mention of the entrance I used. Confirmation that an entrance at the other end of the car park has a sign.
  Map of the car park enclosed which is cut off so as not to show the entrance I used but shows the other entrance, you'd think the entrance I used didn't exist.
  They admit the signs in the car park do not reflect the traffic order they are there to enforce, but claim as I would not have known this at the time they issued me a ticket that shouldn't count.
  They have had an internal investigation and can not confirm or deny my claim of procedural impropriety because they dont know if a Traffic Penalty Tribunal form was enclosed with their rejection letter or not.
  They request I am denied a personal hearing as attending it would not be cost effective for them.
  I just find it unbelievable, have replied.
• Terrible - I see Bogsy on pepipoo was as horrified as I was about them trying to obstruct your right to a personal hearing!
• Quick up date
  Had a letter today from TPT confirming my comments on the council submission has been received and that a copy has been sent to the council. The letter states that if the council respond to my comments they will send me a copy direct.
  Reference the council asking that I do not receive a personal hearing, I told the TPT one of the reasons I have asked for a personal hearing is to demonstrate that the envelope used to send me the rejection notice arrived undamaged and is too small to contain a Traffic Penalty Tribunal form.
  Will be interesting to see how they address that point should they choose, unless they treat it like the other evidence they don't like and ignore it.
• Had what I consider an odd phone call from the TpT service today. They said they had sent me a letter yesterday giving me a personal hearing date but as the council had asked for a telephone hearing instead would it not also be more convenient for me to have a telephone hearing. I refused their offer and said the council has no right to ask that I be denied a personal hearing and if the council do not wish to attend they could always cancel the ticket. The TpT person said the council maybe offered the opportunity to take part by telephone.
• My appeal hearing is on Monday, got my information together lets hope I'm in luck.
• Good luck.