Company Directors & CSA

A question about : Company Directors & CSA

My ex-husband is not paying maintenance for our daughter and so I recently approached the CSA for help. He runs a limited company and is a company director. According to the CSA, his accounts show a weekly income of Ј140 so the CSA have assessed that he needs to pay me Ј6 a week ...... he lives in a Ј900,000 house, drives an Audi TT, has had six holidays so far this year that I know of (one of which was six weeks in America), has a gardener, a cleaner and is currently paying someone to decorate his house.

How can this be right? Do the CSA have powers to investigate his company and see what his real income is. He's told me that his mortgage is Ј600,000 - how can he get that sort of mortgage with an income of Ј140 per week - is it possible that he has two sets of books?

I'm fuming about this - how can a company director living this lifestyle have to pay only Ј1 a week more than someone on benefits? It's all wrong but it doesn't seem like there is anything I can do about it.

If anyone can offer any advice on where I go from here I would really appreciate it.

Best answers:

• Report him to the HMRC. They are quicker off the ball than CSA and take tax evasion extremely seriously.
• Does he have a partner? Its possible that he is only paying himself a very low wage but paying her a lot. CSA only want to know what his income is for child maintenence purposes! Don't ask about hers!!
• Is it a LTD company? If so, then you can get copies of his submissions to companies house.
  Alternatively, you can gather as much evidence of his lifestyle (eg get car registration number and evidence of his car, postcards from holidays he sends the children - anything) and make an application on the grounds that his lifestyle is inconsistent with his declared income. Also, does he pay himself large dividends? If so then you could ask that this be looked into and ask if they can be taken into account as earnings - if he controls the money then they may well be able to.
• Hi jackiegats - I'm in a very similar postition to yourself and I think it's about time that the CSA woke up to the fact that there are thousands of PWC's who are not getting the support they should from the NRP because the NRP is self employed and they are screwing the system in order to pay less to their children
• Thank you all for your replies.
  I agree with Frugallass that the system is all wrong - there must be something that can be done to sort out this loophole where company directors can get away with not supporting their children.
  It is a Ltd company and I recently paid Ј18 to get a copy of his accounts but he seems to be exempt from submitting them for some reason so they don't show much information at all
  I have contacted the CSA again, explaining the situation, and they are sending me a form to complete. They will be investigating further but it seems that he is exploiting a huge loophole in the system so i'm not holding out much hope.
• It's a terrible system - the CSA aren't interested in helping and the forms they send are a nightmare to complete (especially when I live 250 miles away from NRP and cannot give any evidence or proof of his income / lifestyle
• It is all because Ministers naievly believe that ALL NRPs want to pay their ex's for child support, and that the reason that some don't pay, is because of the complexity of it!!! lol. Under CS1 that was cited as being one of the reasons that they thought CS2 would improve compliance - but it hasn't!!!! Ministers just don't have a clue.
• As mentioned the main areas for a variation are:
  Lifestyle (as you have already mentioned, but there have been commssioners decisions that state that any capital and directors loans payments cannot be included so it gets a little more complicated.
  Dividends: Anything over Ј5200 per year can be looked at
  Diversion: If his partner has an income from the business when she in reality does not do anything, that he has amazingly stopped taking a salary since the CSA got involved etc. (was he self employed before? Do you have any idea of previous earnings?)
  Does he only have one company? I have seen cases where there are multiple companies all paying him a small amount. Check with companies house for all his directorships.
  Also ask the CSA to look at whether the company paid him bonuses (separate from dividends) as they should be included.
• Isn't it absolutely disgusting when NRPs will use any back door they can to provide less for their children, makes you sick doesn't it. I don't know how the pathetic system works when making people pay for their responsibilities but I hope you manage to get the children what they deserve.
• it's so wrong but the CSA do absolutely nothing about it
  it seems to me that the more honest you are the more the CSA screws you for every penny you have
• Jackie
  I am in the same position as you, my ex owns at least three companies, drives a brand new car, has two houses here and property overseas and all on Ј5000 a year.
  Would love to know how he does it because he must have fantastic budgeting skills! You can get the records from companies house on their webcheck service for Ј2 or Ј3, but otherwise if it is a small business and is exempt or if it is an umbrella company or holding company then he wont have to put in any accounts for a couple of years. If you ask for a directors report then you can see what other appointments he holds, if there are other companies that he has not declared.
  You can ask to have his dividends taken into account, but to be honest if they are providing perks instead then they are not taken into account. You can apply for a variation but I was told by the variations officer that VERY few of them are upheld so you will have to appeal on the grounds of lifestyle being inconsistent with his lifestyle.
  You could always try your MP....
• Thanks again for all your advice and support on this, it's a shame that i'm not the only one in this situation - although it is also nice to know i'm not alone!
  This system is all totally wrong - why should some NRPs get away with paying a pittance, or nothing, for their children? I know that most NRPs are happy to support their children and that's great and as it should be, but it seems to me from discussions and advice i've had recently that there are so many loopholes here that if they're clever about it and choose not to offer support they can get away with it while other honest and hardworking NRPs are struggling to pay huge child maintenance bills as assessed by the CSA. The system is totally unfair but it doesn't seem that anything can be done about it. I will be sending the forms off to the CSA today and will see what they come back with but something more should be done about this. I will also be speaking to my local MP.
• you're totally right in everything you say
  I remember once speaking to a CSA operator who told me that I needed to provide proof of income, spending and lifestyle but couldn't tell me what kind of proof they accepted ie photographic, someone's word, my daughter's word, information from private investigator etc - I know all about his foreign holidays, the new car, the fact that he has re-mortgaged his house, how much he spends on golf, drinking and fags and how much he spends on himself when my daughter is there - all this and he reckons he brings home Ј201 a week !
  It's a ridiculous and wrong system - personally I think that the CSA should thoroughly investigate every self-employed NRP and have access to bank statements etc
• The thing is frugall lass if they are an employee of the company then that doesnt count! My ex put 50 out of 51 shares in the company in his partners name just before the CSA made their assessment. I can prove that he got the CSA notice to assess and did that, but it is perfectly legal! I can also prove that his partner cannot possibly contribute to the company as she has a full time job of her own, but that cannot be taken into account.
  So, because he does not own the company (despite being the MD) he can be paid a pittance and yet still benefit from the income the company provides to his household. Similarly because the house is in his partners name (I can prove that she could not get the mortgaged values on her own) he "rents" a room off her which is taken into account in his assessment. He claims that he takes no dividends from the company and the last accounts he submitted to the CSA were not even audited by an accountant - he couldnt afford one apparently - and so they accepted them as truthful. In reality they were a complete work of fiction but it is up to the PWC to provide all of the proof, not the NRP to provide it.
  In order to prove anything we have to take it to appeal and tribunal, but again we have to pay for an investigation. And all this after the CSA closed the original case on CS1 which would have solved all of this issue!!!
  Bear in mind though that if you go to a tribunal you CAN have this backdated to the original date of the claim, as he will have been claiming dividends all along.
• Kimitatsu it sounds like you have a nightmare on your hands but it also sounds like your totally on the ball and not likely to give up the battle - I'm a firm believer in the saying 'what goes around comes around' and I'm sure it will apply to you
  Don't give up the fight !
  Just thinking out loud here, if we take on the services of a private investigator and achieve a successful result (ie prove the NRP is a lying cheat), can we claim the cost back from CSA?
• Thanks frugall lass
  I too am a firm believer in reaping what you sow and I have LOTS of patience lol!!
  As for the PI I am not sure, although you could chase him through the civil courts for the debt and add interest on from the initial date, I think the current rate is 8% above the base rate for debts which have been granted a liability order that should cover the cost!! However the NRP does not have to pay it all at once although the courts can order them to sell assets to pay the debt. Also bear in mind that bankruptcy does not include CSA debts so there is no wriggling out that way either.
  And as for moving abroad as long as their company has a UK pay office then you can get a DoE.......my day will come
• When I read posts like those of Kimitatsu it makes me wish that these men get taken to the cleaners by their new partners,that they lose it all because they put everything in their partners name to avoid CSA.
  So much for these women as well. I always supported my husband paying for his 2 older boys as I knew what it was like not to recieve maintenance for my older 2. If he had been the sort of bloke who wanted to shirk his responsibilities to his 2 older boys I wouldn't wanted to have been with him. (ironically he turned out to be a ** anyway but that's another story!)
• am just wanting to ressurect this thread. as i am in the same horrible position as you guys were and wondering if anyone had any joy or can advise me how to go about proving his income? am considering a PI but wondering about the cost of this.
  thanks