26 Feb 2015

A question about : Please help re care home fees

Hello. Hopefully I may get some help as I am getting nowhere with Social Services. My mother is 93 and suffers with dementia and various other illnesses. We had the Dr from the memory clinic out on Wednesday who said she was far worse now than she was in Jan had we thought of putting her into care.

He knows I suffer with cancer myself and probably sees the strain. I told him we had enquired of the Social Services but was worried the house would have to be sold as the house is in mothers name. I have lived here for the last 15 years with her and dad until he died six years ago then it was just me and mum. The doctor advised me to contact CAB on the matter as the SS financial assessors are unwilling to give any prediction as to the outcome should she go into care.

As I say I am 63 with cancer and don't want to have to up sticks and be homeless. The house we live in is only a small house and because it has not had much renovation (we still have a 1970's kitchen) so not much will be generated. Could you give me any idea as to a solution to my predicament. Thank you

Best answers:

  • As you are over 60, the house will be disregarded when assessing her for payment.
    See page 4 - https://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN....pdf?dtrk=true
  • Thank you so very much for your reply I am most grateful. I know I'm a bit of a thicko but reading that it seems the house would be disregarded and taken out of it all together could you confirm. The reason I am asking is because the subject has been broached with Social Services and they have never even hinted of this (and looking at me they definitely wouldn't mistake me for a spring chicken). I've even told them my age. I am so annoyed that they just wouldn't offer this information when they know the circumstances. My thanks again
  • Sorry you are going through this. Speak to a member of the team who assessed your mum and ask for their contact with Social Services - I often find you get a better service going through the team than contacting SS direct.
    Also, the team will be part of the assessment process, as nursing care remains free (and the boundary between nursing & personal care is not always easy to see!)
    Does your mum have other assets that mean she will be funding her personal care? You can look at this on directgov or ageuk.
    Also, are you getting the care you need & whatever you may be entitled to?
  • Mum only has the house and her pension and I just get my pension and pension credit. I think someone said (The Macmillan Nurse I think) I may be due other stuff but as I'm still undergoing treatment in and out of hospital for oscopies and treatment (I hate oscopies) and mum being a handful it's always something I will look into tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow. It is something I will have to do though thanks
  • just to confirm that as you are over 60 the house will be disregarded in the financial assessment for mum - this should be confirmed at the assessment, if you are worried, ring the financial assessment team at your local social services and get them to confirm this in writing. The assesment will be done based on CRAG regulations - Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide - which is the'bible' for financial assessments.
    Good luck and make sure you look after yourself as well as mum.
  • Dear Gwazi999
    Take a look at this Factsheet from the Alzheimer's Society which gives information about Care Home Fees:
    https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/sc...documentID=125
    This reinforces what has lready been said:
    Quote:
  • I just wanted to thank you again to the people who helped with this matter I am so grateful. I was thinking it all over last night and thought about writing to social services to say how unhelpful they were. The main thing that does grate and annoy is the fact that the financial assessor who came out to us was in complete knowledge of the facts but decided not to impart the information saying only that if mum did go into care the house would not be sold until she died. Because of that information we thought we had better just manage ourselves without their help and try and get by. If I should write I will also contact my Local Councillor and MP both of which I voted for (more fool me) not that I suppose it will do any good.
    Once again a big thank you to all here for the help.
  • Can someone please help? My partner's mother, who has dementia, is in a care home in Kent. We accept that her flat needs to be sold to pay the Ј28,000 bill outstanding and I have taken things over as my partner has become ill from the stress of it all.
    OK, whether or not the LA should be paying is another issue but, for now, we need to get this debt out of the way; we have no money to pay it. The problem is that it is in a retirement home (run by a notorious property management company) and the service charges/ground rent amount to about Ј3,000 pa plus Ј1000 later this year for external decorations. My partner's mother has no savings.
    Her flat has just had the carpet taken up and the flat treated for a serious infestation of moths, so it is not the most saleable of properties. About 10 out of the 30 or so flats there have been on the market - and not selling, some for years. In fact, the only flat to sell in the past 5 years - according to Land Registry records - was one for Ј43,000 last year. This is despite the valuation being Ј75,000 (the flat originally cost Ј131,000 in 2005), which was a top-of-the-head rough estimate my partner innocently gave them over the phone when asked how much it was worth originally. The flats are on the market for prices ranging from Ј59,000 to Ј65,000 and are being reduced every few months as they continue to not move - or even be viewed.
    We did have an offer of about Ј32-35,000 from a quick sale company which my partner wanted to accept but the LA said they would treat that as deprivation of assets. Their 'legal team' who were supposed to be getting back to us on this never did; instead we had yet another bullying phone call from the finance dept telling us to send them an estate agent's valuation and put it on the market with one of them. We strongly suspect they are just stalling for time whilst waiting for her to die as her health is poor. Then they can wriggle out of paying anything. (This from a council that paid out a half a million pounds to their social services head when she left after 18 month in the job........ Sorry, but I get so upset about it.)
    We have written - several times - to the LA to explain that the estate agents valuations are not realistic as that price has little hope of being realised but they simply phone us up and bully my partner, insisting that if he sells for less than Ј75,000 they will treat that as deprivation of assets. As there is a legal charge on the property the LA will take every penny and he is afraid he won't even be able to bury her. It has made him ill.
    I have tried to get legal advice on this but am constantly being told "it's a grey area" which doesn't help. Oh, and his mother has never been properly asssessed, medically.
    Can anyone help? Thanks a lot.
  • Hello Charlie - I get very angry about this as well.
    First of all, this lady definitely needs a medical assessment. The home will have her registered with a GP - ask them to check what has already been done and then to arrange an assessment. They will know the team, and from the assessment will come a decision about whether any of this cost is nursing care - I doubt it will amount to much, but at least with an official assessment of her state of mind you will have ammunition.
    Contact ageuk or the Alzheimer's Society- they have people who can help you through this minefield. It is perfectly common for LAs to have to wait for a property sale to go through, and they may help you to word a letter that will have more clout. I do hope so.
    I also think - from previous posts here - that you can make the ground rent / service charges wait until you have something to pay them with; but I do think you need the advice of one of the specialist organisations.
    I feel so sad & angry that our society is doing this to people.
  • Approach three local agents for valuations.
    Why not put the flat up for sale to try the market?
  • I thought that Charlie's partner had done that and it wasn't selling (maybe I misunderstood - it certainly does need to be on the market to show willing, and for estate agents to be demonstrating lack of interest)
    I cam back on to add that it may be a good idea to approach your local councillor (info on the LA's website) as it is they who should be controlling the way LA approach things. certainly when they start writing letters and asking for reports things tend to slow up and get a bit more civilised. They may also have a good idea of who best to approach locally.
  • Thanks for the advice. I've contacted estate agents today to do another valuation and asked for a realistic one. However, the quick house sale companies who were interested no longer seem to be.
    The trouble is that my partner has literally been making himself ill over this but now it's getting to me (I'm currently waiting for a knee replacement operation and have work/money problems too). Being self-employed, I can't afford to take time off but have this to sort out as well and am currently on medication for a stress-related illness.
    If only the LA was helpful but the way they treat us, they appear to assume that we're lining our own pockets (on what?!) and have been bullying, aggressive and downright unpleasant.
    Again, thanks!
  • Good ideas; thanks.
  • It's really not worth making yourself ill over it. They can shout all they want but if the money isn't there, the bills can't be paid. You are not responsible for any of the debts.
  • Thanks but they are saying that they can and will take all the proceeds as they will consider it a deprivation of assets if we sell for less than they say it is worth - an unobtainable Ј75,000 - and are therefore not obliged to leave the final Ј14,750 limit. As there is a legal charge by them on the flat, they can do that as the proceeds will go straight to them. So - not even enough for a funeral which is disgusting.
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