A question about : **NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? OLD OR NEW? **READ THESE FAQS FIRST!** Thankyou!
WELCOME!
THIS THREAD TELLS YOU HOW TO WIN AN APPEAL, DEAL WITH DEBT COLLECTOR LETTERS AND ALL ISSUES RELATING TO ANY PRIVATE PARKING TICKET.
UNLESS YOU ARE AT 'IGNORE THE DEBT COLLECTORS' STAGE (see post #4) 'IGNORE' IS NOT THE RIGHT ADVICE IN ENGLAND/WALES!
This isn't a real parking ticket. Don't be scared.
The details do not matter! You always have a case to challenge a private parking ticket, whatever the circumstances or photos.
Want a nice simple summary - a step-by-step guide first?
Then (thanks to da_rule) please click and look at this flowchart post (CLICKY LINK)
and then (thanks to Umkomaas) read this straightforward 'walk through the process' where the PPC is a BPA member:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=63678135#post63678135
IF YOURS IS IAS (AN IPC MEMBER) THEN YOU ARE LIKELY TO LOSE THAT STAGE BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU PAY! SEE HERE:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5149137
IF YOUR 'PCN' IS FROM AN 'IPC' AOS MEMBER PLEASE START A NEW THREAD WITH PHOTOS OF THE SIGNS ANDTHE PCN/NTK AND DON'T SAY WHO WAS DRIVING.
ANOTHER OPTION IS TO USE A FIRM WHICH WILL APPEAL IT FOR YOU, OR CONTACT THE BMPA (A MOTORISTS' FIGHTBACK CHARITY) FOR ADVICE:
BMPA - Protecting Consumer Rights
There are also other useful websites with advice, such as Parking Cowboys:
https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/
If you/family are not the registered keeper - e.g. if yours is a hire/company/lease car - see asterisk below as you must appeal EARLY *.
Appealing a private PCN (England & Wales ONLY)
Windscreen ticket? = STOP!!
Consider waiting for the postal 'Notice to Keeper' in MOST cases, unless it is NCP or Meteor or WING or a small PPC like 'JAS' or 'JD Parking Consultants' or 'UCS parking Ltd' or 'P4Parking aka Nighthawk' who faff about sending debt collector letters and don't even send a NTK. If so, latest advice is to avoid the debt collector rubbish and in the case of the firms listed above, appeal after around 21 days but as the KEEPER, not driver, using the same template below. Start a new thread if unsure about 'your' PPC - we can tell you if they are 'small fry' or you can search the forum for their name and read about other people's recent experiences of appealing their tickets first, to see if they do issue a Notice to Keeper or dive straight into 'debt collector threatograms'.
In most cases, only send an appeal or challenge when the PPC send you the postal NTK or 'reminder' or Parking Charge' or 'charge notice' or whatever they call their first letter.
If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to) the Notice has to arrive by day 15 if there was no windscreen ticket, and between day 29 and day 57 if there was a windscreen ticket. Some firms (e.g. Civil Enforcement, Smart Parking and some small PPCs) don't even bother with POFA2012 so the keeper is not liable - obviously the keeper is the only person identified in your appeal then!
Why wait for the postal NTK and why not admit who the driver was?
- Under POFA 2012 the registered keeper has a stronger set of appeal grounds than a driver.
- Another reason is if a PCN does not have the wording from Schedule 4 or if it's a 'byelaws' car park (e.g. Railway, Port, Quay, Airport) then the PPC can only pursue the driver, so by appealing as the keeper you keep that information anonymous.
- Some PPCs never send any letters; they are not allowed to get the DVLA data at all if they are not a member of an 'Accredited Trade Association' currently, either the BPA or IPC.
Victims who rush to appeal could be handing a scam artist their details on a plate and - almost as bad - pointlessly throwing away appeal grounds open to the keeper.
When you have your NTK (or 'Charge Notice', or 'reminder' or 'PCN' or TNC or PCS debt collector drivel or whatever they call the first letter to keeper):
Compare your postal PCN (NTK) to paragraph 8 or 9 of POFA 2012 (linked below), depending if there was a windscreen ticket issued first or not.
It's an excerpt from a law but it really isn't difficult, please don't just ask the regulars here to check your NTK for you without making an attempt to check it yourself, unless you really need help to read the simple bullet points in paragraph 8 (NTK which follows a windscreen ticket) or paragraph 9 (NTK which serves as the first PCN). Look for omissions in wording or late arrival of the NTK and include those points in your appeal because as the registered keeper you can argue 'no keeper liability' if the PPC have not followed the requirements for a NTK. However that does not make the ticket 'illegal' it just demotes it to one which is issued under 'old rules and is only potentially aimed at an - unidentified of course! - driver.
THE FIRST APPEAL TO THE PPC
Don't forget to include a copy of any receipts if 'the driver' (third person!!) was shopping when you got the fake PCN. Some PPCs, like ParkingEye, might cancel. For the initial appeal to the PPC you can use THE APPEAL BELOW WHICH SUITS ANY CASE IN ENGLAND/WALES AND CAN BE ADAPTED TO BE A 'LATE APPEAL' AS WELL.
Do not write a letter of appeal about 'what happened' (mitigating circumstances are POINTLESS)! Thanks to da_rule for explaining why this would fail:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=65659087&highlight...
So, no story about 'my permit', nothing like 'there was someone sat in the car all the time', nothing about the 'wrong reg number was put in the pay and display machine' and nothing about the stupid flimsy P&D ticket falling off the dashboard!
IF you write your own wording be careful not to imply if you were driving - so no adding a naпve 'I would have paid' or 'I have a permit but forgot it' or 'I paid by phone' or 'I wouldn't have parked there if...' which is all utterly pointless mitigation anyway!
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Want a copy & paste template appeal that works? Use this version, written from the 'KEEPER' which suits all cases. Yes it needs your postal address, and yes it needs your name as keeper.
If you have to appeal as driver (e.g. if yours is a company or hire car) then of course remove the wording about 'not naming the driver' and anything about the POFA 2012 which only protects keepers.
Date
Dear Sirs
Re: PCN No. ....................
I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:
a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is intended to be a deterrent.
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations.
e). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.
Your clients should be thoroughly ashamed of the shoddy way you treat consumers visiting their premises. The landowner will be made fully aware of this matter and your response, which I will forward to their CEO when I complain in writing and via social media, as appropriate. Parking firms like yours fail to demonstrate even a basic understanding of customer service. The reputation of your business model appears to be more akin to a protection racket than 'parking management'. Your ATA may offer sound-bites about driving up standards or fight for motorists' rights but in reality they are not a regulator; they merely exist to represent the interests of paying members, in order to gain access to DVLA data. The public have no faith in the private parking industry and, as far as I have seen, your firm has not shown itself to be any different than the ex-clampers with whom you share a membership.
The purpose of this communication is:
1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I suggest you uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter - subject to accepting my claim for costs as clearly stated below, since you have no case.
2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law and responding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed Ј15. Therefore, this is a formal drop hands offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at Ј18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.
3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - IAS or POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. It is the will of Parliament following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that express consent is obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent - and that information is provided in a durable medium in advance.
You have failed to meet these requirements. The foisting of unexpected contracts like this on consumers, by stealth, is a thing of the past.
By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you decide to persist with this unwarranted threat, I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that this sum will be likely to exceed Ј100.
I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.
Yours faithfully,
{the registered keeper's name}
ADD A SQUIGGLE IF POSTING IT - NO NEED TO USE A REAL SIGNATURE
If you want to have a rant, if you are angry about the so-called 'PCN' and intend to complain to the retailer/landowner/Hospital/hotel or whatever is on site, DO COMPLAIN in writing!! Many, many of these PCNs are cancelled when retailers & landowners receive an assertive complaint.
Do not phone a PPC. Do not phone the retailer/landowner.
Write a complaint in your own complaint-writing style. See separate post #6 below and we have another sticky thread re 'Successful Complaints'!
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- Want to dig deeper? Want to check the compliance of your ticket or Notice to Keeper, if the PPC is citing 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012?
Here's a link to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 which applies in England/Wales only (bear in mind not all tickets or NTKs cite this Act, so check yours first):
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted
- If no time to 'dig out flaws' in paperwork, just use our appeal example unless your PCN was from:
'Devere' (Bournemouth usually, e.g. at Castlepoint)
'District Enforcement' (Staffordshire University etc.)
'Secure -a-Space'
'Napier'
'Combined Parking Solutions'
If so, please start a thread with a picture of the sign on site and don't respond to private messages offering 'help'.
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SECOND STAGE APPEAL, POPLA OR IAS - SEE SEPARATE POST #3 BELOW
For info about how to win at POPLA stage - WE DO WIN AND HAVE 100% RECORD AT PRESENT FOR POPLA - see the links under 'How to win at POPLA' in post #3 below.
It is imperative you get the POPLA appeal right as this is the chance to win.
If the PPC offers only IAS (not POPLA) please start a new thread with pics of the SIGNAGE because you are likely to lose that stage but we say APPEAL ANYWAY then complaint to the DVLA because of this:
[TEXT REMOVED BY FORUM TEAM]
ALLEGED IAS IS A KANGAROO COURT BUT WE NEED MORE COMPLAINTS TO THE DVLA ABOUT IT (SEE POST #6 FOR THE EMAIL ADDRESS FOR THE DVLA).
TOO LATE TO APPEAL - YOU THINK?!
YOU CAN STILL BE PROACTIVE AND GET THESE CANCELLED, OR AT LEAST MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION TO IGNORE ALL EXCEPT COURT PAPERS.
APPEAL ANYWAY AND SEND ROBUST LETTERS - LOOK, IT WORKS EVEN IF SENT 'LATE':
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...=#post65046030
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...=#post65020810
TRY TO 'RESET THE CLOCK' TO APPEAL STAGE (POSTAL PCNs ONLY, NOT AIRPORT OR DOCKS/PORTS)
Are you the keeper but not the driver? Left it too late to appeal, but so far only had letters (i.e. not windscreen ticket cases)? Do not use this phrase but we say IF IT WAS A POSTAL PCN BUT IT WAS NOT ISSUED RE AIRPORT LAND NOR PORT/DOCKS LAND, you should try to 're-set the clock' so that the driver can appeal instead when they are sent their PCN. I have done this myself for a friend and it does work!
You can write to the PPC at any stage before (very rare except with ParkingEye!) court action, to give the name and address of the driver and under POFA 2012 that then discharges any possible liability against you as keeper.
This is especially recommended where it was a postal PCN (not re docks/Port/Airport because the keeper has no liability there anyway!). If the keeper has ignored it and missed the appeal window, the driver still has that option open to THEM to appeal due to the lack of a windscreen ticket. A good plan is to give a different postal address for the driver, and state that you have NOT passed the paperwork to them so, if the PPC are to have a chance of pursuing it, they will have to write to the driver with a 'Notice to Driver' from scratch.
Discussed here, and it has been tried and tested:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=63471753#post63471753
Giving the name and address of the driver is a good plan if you (as keeper) have left it too late to appeal and it was a postal PCN not issued re a Port or Airport land.
Not recommended for windscreen ticket cases because the driver has already had their chance to appeal and missed it.
ONLY consider naming the driver for a windscreen ticket case if the registered keeper is vulnerable and not happy to cope with the letters and would rather they went to the driver... e.g. if an elderly relative is the keeper and is upset by all the letters, and is too late to appeal, or if the driver was your ex and you are understandably not happy to have court threats arriving!
Please no new threads about the Peel Centre or Debt Recovery Plus letters!
Yawn yawn yawn...blah blah Peel Centre...blah blah Debt Recovery Plus...
eeeek!! Not enough newbies SEARCH - you only need to put in 'Peel' or 'Recovery' into the 'search this forum' heading!>>
We will help if you've read other threads - but we don't need the same old threads every day...please! You'll see why when you 'search this forum' for your keyword! Here's one result you'd find easily with a search of ONE WORD 'Peel' - a poster who didn't need to start a thread until they won at POPLA v Excel at the Peel Centre:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=65643985&highlight...
DEBT COLLECTOR STAGE - SEE POST #4 BELOW - please no new threads about the letters, we have seen them all before and so can you by searching the forum! So, for example if you have a Debt Recovery Plus letter talking about 'my findings' then search this forum for 'Recovery findings' as your keywords. DO NOT START A NEW THREAD.
CAN'T SAY IT ENOUGH, THIS IS NOT A FORUM FOR TALKING AD INFINITUM ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR LETTER CHAINS SO PLEASE SPARE US.
DO NOT START A NEW THREAD ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR TEDIUM, PLEASE, JUST SEARCH AND READ WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID.
SMALL CLAIM? SEE POST #5 BELOW - certainly start a new thread once you've read the links.
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If in Scotland/NI:
Apart from (of course!!) complaining to the landowner/retailer you should IGNORE your fake PCN unless you are not the registered keeper and that is a company (hire car or leased/company vehicle).* You are safe to ignore because there is no worthwhile appeals process - do not believe what the fake PCN says! This Watchdog video still applies in Scotland and NI because a PPC has to know who was driving (unlike in England/Wales now):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA
WHEN IGNORING IN SCOTLAND/NI, KEEP ALL LETTERS. DO NOT THROW THEM AWAY EVEN IF YOU HAVE MADE A PAPER AEROPLANE FROM THEM!
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* COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK
In the case of a company car or hire car, the above advice differs. You would have to appeal EARLY to hook the PPC in your direction, before they get a chance to get the keeper's details from the DVLA or equivalent. You should also warn the owner/keeper (Fleet Manager) not to pay if they do get a letter about it because they have no business to get involved in a fake PCN you have already appealed as driver, and you won't reimburse them if they are daft enough to pay it.
If the hire/lease co has named you as the driver that is a good thing as it removes them from the loop entirely and then you can follow the above advice as appropriate to your case - but check and see if they have charged an admin fee. Challenge that admin fee with the Fleet Manager, Hire firm or your HR Manager, if your car use t&cs do not support this deduction for a mere invoice (as opposed to a fine/penalty).
Best answers:
- Some forum acronyms explained (REMEMBER THAT SOME OF THESE WILL NOT MEAN ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE FORUM)
AOS = Approved Operator Scheme of an Accredited Trade Association such as the BPA (or the new one, the IPC). Only AOS members can get DVLA data.
BPA = British Parking Association, merely a Trade Body for its member PPCs (not a regulator & not on your side, however you can use them to complain).
'No GPEOL' = our forum shorthand only, for 'no genuine pre-estimate of loss' which is the current major 'easy win' appeal point at POPLA (only where the PPC alleges a 'breach of terms' or 'failure to comply'). Do not assume this alone will work in your case though - start a new thread if unsure. England/Wales only. Will not work against PPCs such as Combined Parking Solutions who do not set their charges out to be for 'breach'.
IAS = a 2nd stage 'independent' appeal service, applicable in England/Wales and for IPC AOS members only.
IPC = Independent Parking Committee - merely a Trade Body for its member PPCs (not a regulator & not on your side, however you can use them to complain). Forget their so-called independent appeal stage of IAS in most cases, shockingly rude and arrogant bullyboy (allegedly biased) decisions have been reported.
LBCCC/LBC/LBA = Letter Before County Court Claim/Letter Before Claim/Letter Before Action. DO NOT IGNORE IT. How to respond.
MCOL = Money Claim Online.
NTK = Notice to Keeper which should be the first letter sent to the registered keeper. See below for how to appeal if in England/Wales.
'fake PCN' = any 'parking charge notice' issued by any PPC at all for any reason, could be a windscreen version or a postal PCN/NTK (see below)
PPC = our forum shorthand only, for 'private parking company'.
POFA 2012 = Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (specifically Schedule 4 as linked below). England/Wales ONLY.
POPLA = Parking on Private Land Appeals - a 2nd stage 'independent' appeal service, applicable in England/Wales and for BPA AOS members only. - SECOND STAGE APPEAL - POPLA OR IAS
POPLA IS OFFERED BY BPA AOS FIRMS AND YOU'D HAVE TO TRY HARD TO LOSE IT!
POPLA Code Checker, courtesy of ParkingCowboys.co.uk which shows you when your 28 day deadline began:
https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla-code-checker/
Click on these words:
How to win at POPLA and you will see clear adaptable examples of winning POPLA appeals, some specific to the main PPCs and others specific to Airports, Railway car parks, retail, etc.
ParkingCowboys.co.uk have their own similar summary of How to win at POPLA:
https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla/
And you could read the latest POPLA decisions (do not start reading there at page 1 - read back from the most recent at the end, and learn!).
[COLOR=red]ALWAYS USE POPLA IF YOUR TICKET IS FROM A BPA MEMBER! [COLOR=black]WE WIN THESE APPEALS HERE. ANOTHER OPTION IS TO USE A FIRM WHICH WILL APPEAL IT CHEAPLY FOR YOU (SOME WILL REFUND IF THEY LOSE) OR CONTACT THE BMPA (A MOTORISTS' FIGHTBACK CHARITY) FOR ADVICE:
BMPA - Protecting Consumer Rights
There are also other useful websites with advice, such as Parking Cowboys:
https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/
and [TEXT REMOVED BY FORUM TEAM]
DO NOT SEND A MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES 'NORMAL APPEAL' AT POPLA - NOTHING ABOUT THE PERMIT SLIPPING DOWN, OR EXCUSES!
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IF YOURS IS IAS (AN IPC MEMBER) THIS IS NOT LIKE POPLA! BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN (REPEAT, NOT!) A PERSON HAS TO PAY THE PPC WHEN THEY LOSE THE IAS STAGE. IT JUST PUTS YOU INTO 'IGNORE THE DEBT COLLECTORS' STAGE. THE FACT MOST PEOPLE LOSE IS A DAMNING INDICTMENT OF THE IAS AND THE TERRIBLE DECISIONS WE'VE SEEN, NOTHING MORE!
[TEXT REMOVED BY FORUM TEAM]
HO87 explains the problems with the IAS anonymous and apparently unaccountable appeals system here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=67067144#post67067144
and this is typical thread where we've discussed the issue, we all agree it appears to be a 'kangaroo court' BUT we say, use it. You are VERY likely to lose but then posters here can complain to the DVLA in droves (things won't change if there are not enough complaints):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5149137
IF YOUR 'PCN' IS FROM AN IPC AOS MEMBER PLEASE START A NEW THREAD WITH PHOTOS OF THE SIGNS ANDTHE PCN/NTK AND DON'T SAY WHO WAS DRIVING. WITH OUR HELP, TRY AN IAS APPEAL THEN BRACE YOURSELF TO LOSE IT BUT TAKE IT WITH A PINCH OF SALT AND COMPLAIN TO THE DVLA! - 'IGNORE THE DEBT COLLECTORS' STAGE - DO NOT PANIC!
CAN'T SAY IT ENOUGH, THIS IS NOT A FORUM FOR TALKING AD INFINITUM ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR LETTER CHAINS SO PLEASE SPARE US!!
DO NOT START A NEW THREAD ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR TEDIUM, PLEASE, JUST SEARCH AND READ WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID.
REPEAT: CAN'T SAY IT ENOUGH, THIS IS NOT A FORUM FOR TALKING AD INFINITUM ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR LETTER CHAINS SO PLEASE SPARE US!!!!!!!
DO NOT START A NEW THREAD ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR TEDIUM, PLEASE, JUST SEARCH AND READ WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID.
READ THIS BEFORE YOU START A NEW THREAD ABOUT ROSSENDALES or DEBT RECOVERY PLUS!
Debt Collectors letters or threats of court? Thinking you may be too late to appeal? Told by the PPC that it's too late for POPLA? NO!
You may get debt collector letters, e.g. 'Debt Recovery Plus' (also using trading names of 'PCS' and 'Zenith') or you might have 'Newlyn', 'Rossendales', 'Control Account', 'CCS Collect' or 'Roxburghe'. THESE ARE NOT BAILIFFS, THEY CANNOT SEND THE BOYS ROUND! THIS IS JUST A LETTER-CHAIN YOU GET IF YOU HAVE NOT APPEALED! See this linked explanatory video which will help you to see it for what it is and say 'big deal' about the letters:
LINK: Is a debt collector the same as a bailiff? - StepChange...
All the blue wording below include hidden LINK for you to click about the stupid debt collectors:
If you have letters from any debt collector such as Debt Recovery Plus or Zenith or Roxburghe, and are on the face of it, too late to 'appeal', then (if in England/Wales) appeal anyway to the PPC! and as for the DC, either ignore them or robustly respond.
As well as the links shown (click on the blue words), here's a strong response to send if the PPC says you are 'too late' and it's now with a debt collector:
https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...1entry904431
and here's a 'Letter before Claim' drafted to include the Landowner as well, warning them to call their dogs off due to harassment (after 35 DRP letters!):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...=#post64297676
...and here's a case (link below) where a strong response to ParkingEye when they were nearly at court stage, pulled it back to a POPLA appeal stage even though ParkingEye had already stated (wrongly) that it was 'too late' for POPLA. It is NOT too late for POPLA, insist on it and they can't easily take it to court. You can make their position very difficult - and maybe a POPLA code and rejection letter will follow as it did here. months after the parking event:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...8#post63990978
Keep responding and insisting on a POPLA code and rattling their cage. It can get a charge cancelled, can get a POPLA code and also looks better if it does go to court.
If the letter threatens court imminently, or a solicitor like LPC Law, then consider responding to tell the debt collector that the charge is disputed/denied, and send a robust appeal as the registered keeper (NOT DRIVER!) to the PPC as discussed here: https://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/ukpc-jump-on-lpc-law-ba...
And if you have told the Debt Collector that the 'debt is disputed and denied' and they persist, complain to:
- The Credit Services Association for breach of this Code: https://www.csa-uk.com/page/codes-and...de-of-practice
- and you can make a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...&postcount=449
- and if the debt collection is misleading, uses a firm pretending to be bailiffs, sends fake court papers, does not follow the CSA Code of Practice (linked above) for example, then complain by email (see post 1) to the DVLA about breach of the "KADOE contract": https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4890308
IF YOU DON'T SEE A LINK TO YOUR DEBT COLLECTOR ABOVE (e.g. NEWLYN or ROSSENDALES or others) PLEASE DON'T START YET ANOTHER POINTLESS NEW THREAD ABOUT IGNORING DEBT COLLECTORS BECAUSE FRANKLY THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO ADD TO THIS ADVICE (and there are far too many threads already).
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO WASTE HOURS ON IT THEN PLEASE NO NEW THREAD, JUST SEARCH THE PARKING FORUM FOR THEIR NAME AND MAKE A CUPPA AND READ ALL ABOUT THEIR SILLY LETTER CHAINS, AND EITHER SEND ONE ROBUST REPLY OR TOTALLY IGNORE THEM.
THAT'S ALL.
KEEP ALL THE LETTERS IN CASE IT BECOMES HARASSMENT IN YOUR VIEW OR IN CASE THE PPC EVER TRY A SMALL CLAIM (COVERED IN POST #5).
HTH - SMALL CLAIMS COURT?
(VERY RARE EXCEPT WITH PARKINGEYE - A GOOD REASON NOT TO IGNORE THESE FAKE PCNS!)
ALL SENTENCES IN BLUE BELOW ARE CLICKY LINKS!
Advice: Small Claims & PPCs (PART 18 request early on for their 'particulars':
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=65879351#post65879351
and more advice from Bargepole with a basic defence explained:
https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=87639&st=0&p=923456entry9234 56
and here bargepole explains the first defence should be short, a holding defence, then he explains what happens later on with a more detailed defence:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=66052955&highlight...
The Parking Prankster Guide to Fighting a ParkingEye Court Claim (clicky link)
I can recommend the above (CLICK the blue words, it's a link!) for the price of a cup of coffee which helps to fund buying the court transcripts (written summaries that others can then use!) when people win. Here is more info from the Prankster about how to win a ParkingEye court claim case (two cases won by two clued-up 'older ladies'):
https://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/how-to-win-parkingeye-c...
Also be proactive to try to get POPLA INSTEAD!!:
Write in your defence that you want the chance of the most suitable ADR of POPLA instead, as long as you haven't already gone and lost at POPLA that is! Then when it's allocated to your local court - immediately following the time when you've submitted the N180 Directions Questionnaire - write to the local Judge as per this example (strike while the iron is hot, as soon as the case hits a local level):
https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=90566&st=0&p=964359entry9643 59
This OP followed forum advice, read up on the issues, Parking prankster Guide and the advice here and submitted a defence. Then after N180 Directions Questionnaire stage when he got a hearing date he didn't panic, he wrote to the Court. Basically he was lucky enough that his Court (Sheffield) agreed to 'stay the claim' for POPLA appeal instead! And failing that, the court was also prepared to stay the claim for the outcome of the Court of Appeal PE v Beavis case:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5006337
Here is how to ask for a stay of your claim for POPLA or the Beavis case:
https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=92596&st=20&p=1016290entry10 16290
here is a case where this has just worked, Dec 2014, the OP was due to attend a hearing in January but the claim has been stayed for Beavis until the end of March:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5040759&page=2
A summary of the actual court hearing experience, and tips about the process, from technix on pepipoo who won against Parking Eye in January 2014:
https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=81150&st=80&p=916329entry916 329
Another summary (post #171) of the court experience from liseylou who won on signage wording, in Sept 2014:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4908490&page=6
and here a poster on CAG (post #51) summarises simply how to organise yourself & your defence - if a hearing occurs in your case:
https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?421363-Parkin...
and another really good summary from Mrs Baddeley about her court experience, what happened, gives you a good feel for the hearing:
https://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/why-size-does-matter-pa...
Specific info about Civil Enforcement Claims 2014 which are not sent via MCOL (a bit different than ParkingEye):
NEWSFLASH 9.1.15! anyone with a court case with Civil Enforcement Limited should ask for it to be stayed until the test case of Civil Enforcement Limited v Curtis A93YM708 is heard. Anyone with a court case with DEAL should ask for it to be stayed until the test case of DEAL v Colclough A79YP365
https://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/cel-turn-up-to-court-50...
MORE HERE BY WAY OF BACKGROUND:
https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=94913
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...=#post64895990
CEL do not generally turn up when a case is defended:
https://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/civil-enforcement-limit...
Also look here for more proof and the CEL v McCafferty case (CEL lost it in the first hearing AND on Appeal so it is important) plus loads of other PPC cases:
List of PPC Court Cases won by defendants (non-exhaustive) (clicky link)
And here are plenty of threads with defences shown so you can see what to write and what to consider:
https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=93167 (ParkingEye)
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...=#post66332136 (recent Parking Eye defence including Beavis rebuttal)
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...=#post65666700 (a defence re 2012 charges at the Peel Centre, Excel).
https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=87571 (post #16 was their defence)
https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...9entry961809 (defence shown - case won in the end by Defendant)
https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=87687 (post #7 shows a shorter version of the main defence points)
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...=#post65936780 (District Enforcement at Staffordshire University).
https://www.parking-prankster.com/sample-defence.html = the Parking Prankster's sample defence with the caveat:
''The sample defence should really only be used in an emergency. In most cases you should personalise it, because in large numbers of cases other factors also apply. However, if the filing deadline is upon you, then download and file this defence.''
Of course the forum can help with advice too! - COMPLAINTS:
Always complain to the landowner/retailer very quickly and assertively:
Successful complaints about private parking tickets - how to get them cancelled!
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249 Look how easy it can be to get these cancelled by a retailer/hotel/landowner!
Most fake PCNs can be cancelled if it is a retailer car park, simply by COMPLAINING! If you go for the complaint assertively and quickly you won't even have to bother with any of the above appeals/POPLA stuff!
Look at the linked thread above - I have given typical contact emails in post #3 - for stores, and tips about who to moan at if it's not a shop on site. Also there's a template 'rant' of a complaint letter to give you the flavour of how angry a customer is entitled to be about this utter harassment, particularly if your only error was taking too long shopping!
Retail Park with lots of stores? Google it and find the management or landowner contact details.
************************************************** ************************************************** ******************
Complaining about an AOS member (BPA or IPC member, anywhere in the UK):
Contact details for complaints to the BPA or IPC (as applicable to your PPC) and the DVLA below.
These are useful resources to influence getting parking charges cancelled, such as when an AOS member has not followed POFA 2012 but is still alleging the keeper is 'liable' or if their signage is missing or if they refuse to give you a POPLA/IAS code, or have clearly breached their applicable Code of Practice:
DVLA:
Complain every time to the DVLA if your PPC are faffing around not sending you a POPLA or IAS code even if you appealed in time, or have breached the Code of Practice.
Point out that any breach of the Code of Practice the PPC is signed up to, breaches the KADOE contract to get DVLA data. State that the matter has been escalated to the CCR team because you have no confidence in the data release team to take such a complaint seriously as it's in the public domain that they have dismissed these issues far too many times recently without so much as even supplying a copy of the DVLA complaints procedure leaflet. State that if your complaint is not resolved properly your intention would be to involve your MP and refer the issue to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...=#post65678397
email - ccrt@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
Customer Complaint Resolution Team
D16W
DVLA
Swansea
SA6 7JL
BPA:
steve.c@britishparking.co.uk
Steve Clark
Head of Operational Services
British Parking Association
Stuart House
41-43 Perrymount Road
Haywards Heath
West Sussex
RH16 3BN
And if your PPC is with the IPC and appears to have breached their Code of Practice, the IPC web-site has the following info about complaints:
Compliance Monitoring
e
It is a requirement of all ATA's to have an enforceable Code of Practice. The IPC therefore operates a sanction system in order to encourage compliance.
e
This includes a complaints procedure which allows people who feel that an operator is not complying with the code to refer matters to us.
e
eThe IPC is not able to consider complaints about members unless it is regarding an alleged instance of non-compliance of the Code. Similarly, the IPC are not able to intefere with decisions of Parking Operators in relation to the validity of charges that they issue. Nor will the IPC interfere with or influence in any way, the decisions of the Independent Appeals Service. If you need to refer a complaint to us then please contact us.
The Independent Parking Committee
4 The Stables
Red Cow Yard
Knutsford
Cheshire
WA16 6DG
IPC email: contact@theIPC.info
We'd recommend email for such matters and you can copy in the PPC to show them you mean business! - This thread is for general information only.
Please do not post questions about your parking tickets in this thread.
For personalised help and guidance from our wonderful forum regulars (for free ) please start your own thread by clicking on this blue button: - NO REPLIES HERE PLEASE.
NO REPLIES HERE PLEASE!
This thread is for general information only.
Please do not post questions about your parking tickets in this thread. - For anyone that is worried about which PPC actually go through with their threats of county court, I've just found this little nugget of information
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ssociation.doc - hi guys, thanks for this write up, i used it and behold got a mail and was told the notice as now been cancelled
- Congratulations and well done, but ...
Notice to NEWBIES - Please do not post further similar replies in HERE.
If you wish to tell us this worked for you, please create your own new thread.
Let's keep THIS thread clear as an advice/info thread only. No commentary here please!
Notice for Crabman ... if you move the above post to it's own thread, please delete this reply.
And right below is another example of a Newbie WHO CAN'T READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - This website works !!!!
I received a fine from Parking Eye in Liverpool for an offence in October 2014 at Britannia Adelphi car park. I overstayed by approx 40 mins and they sent me a 'Ј60 parking fine'.
I was about to pay when my daughter told me i only need to pay council fines. I decided to do some internet research and am glad I did !!
I took the advise from this website.
I appealed the PCN by email on the Parking Eye website, within the time limit, using the letter as set out by Coupon-mad 10-11-2013.
Approx 8 days later I received letter from parking eye - I was expecting the worst, increased fine, threat of court, etc...to my surprise they cancelled the fine.
Cannot believe it, from nearly paying Ј60 to have it cancelled.
i cannot thank you enough. Great job. It really does work.
Thanks Guys. - Great - but there are already established threads for reporting appeal and POPLA successes. Please post in them, not here!
- I just wanted to say a BIG THANK YOU to Coupon Mad! Your post on how to appeal a PCN was great! I received a PCN for being over the 1 1/2 hour time limit by 12 minutes in an Aldi carpark. Outraged by their ludicrous demand for Ј40 in 2 weeks and Ј70 thereafter, I followed your advice and sent the template letter to the parking company (Parking Eye) last week. To my surprise I received an email yesterday to say the charge had been cancelled!!!!!!
Thank you so much, you've been a great help!
Dear Sirs
Re: PCN No. ....................
I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:
a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is intended to be a deterrent.
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations.
e). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.
f). This is not a 'parking ticket' - it is an unsolicited invoice with as much merit as the publicly-derided Ј100 taken unlawfully from customers by a dingy Blackpool Hotel.
Your clients should be thoroughly ashamed of the shoddy way you treat consumers visiting their premises. The landowner will be made fully aware of this matter and your response, which I will forward to their CEO when I complain in writing and via social media, as appropriate.
Parking firms like yours fail to demonstrate even a basic understanding of customer service. The reputation of your business model appears to be more akin to a protection racket than 'parking management'. Your ATA may offer sound-bites about driving up standards or fight for motorists' rights but in reality they are not a regulator; they merely exist to represent the interests of paying members, in order to gain access to DVLA data. The public have no faith in the private parking industry and, as far as I have seen, your firm has not shown itself to be any different than the ex-clampers with whom you share a membership.
The purpose of this communication is:
1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I suggest you uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter - subject to accepting my claim for costs as clearly stated below, since you have no case.
2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law and responding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed Ј15. Therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at Ј18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.
3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - IAS or POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. It is the will of Parliament following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that express consent is obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent - and that information is provided in a durable medium in advance.
You have failed to meet these requirements. The foisting of unexpected contracts like this on consumers, by stealth, is a thing of the past.
By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you decide to persist with this unwarranted threat, I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that this sum will be likely to exceed Ј100.
I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.
Yours faithfully,
{the registered keeper's name} - Glad to hear it! PE seem to drop out earlier now as they have bigger fish to fry.
NO REPLIES HERE PLEASE.
NO REPLIES HERE PLEASE!
This thread is for general information only.
Please do not post questions about your parking tickets in this thread. - Hi there,
I can't quite understand what the letter template should be if I want to appeal to lps ( who my PCn is from) but once I have received a letter from debt recovery plus.
Any help would be great.
Thanks, - OBEY #15, PLEASE
Welcome to the wonderful world of mse - sorry it's for this.
You must read the Newbies Stickies thoroughly first, get the hang of using the cram-packed goldmine of info. that's there, including template letters etc.
THEN, start a separate Thread. This isn't the place for individual enquiries. There's plenty to absorb about silly DRP letters.
Get reading:-) - Without going into any details about my individual issue, there are numerous posts which refer back to this one for Newbies, advising on using the template in post #1 to 'appeal'.
I have tried this but am faced with
"The field Reason for Appeal must be a string with a maximum length of 3000"
Just thought I'd point out that to use this template, you won't be able to appeal online (with ParkingEye anyway).
I did see a mention of a shortened template, but it referred back to post #1
DD - Condense it to the main bullet points for the PE appeals portal, then use the attachment facility to send a full appeal. You can leave out the 'rant' bit if you want, they've seen it enough times!
This initial appeal should see the charge cancelled, if not, please start a brand new thread of your own and we'll advise from there. The main objective at this point is to get your initial appeal in within the PE deadlines.
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