09 Mar 2015

A question about : Forced to work out notice with no work to do

Posting for a friend.

Only been in post a year and a half and had notice of redundancy. They are being required to work out 3 months notice, even though there is no work to do. This is because the team leader has no budget to pay people off but the organisation centrally can carry on paying people. (Makes no sense I know.) He is trying to negotiate on this and at the moment it is noted as a grievance.

Looks like friend has found a fixed term contract, but if he gets it they will need him to start in 3 weeks time - he is only 2 weeks into the 3 month notice period.

If push came to shove, what would be the repercussions of just walking out? Would the old firm be obliged to pay out holiday pay accrued but not taken?

Best answers:

  • If they must see out their contract, see if their boss will let them work on their CV, apply for other jobs, do some online training, give them web access, even use the time to brush / swot up on areas of their particular trade / profession where they feel or know their skills / knowlege are a bit weak, research other possible fields / areas of employment, etc
    Big Hint: Do a SWOT analysis of themselves and their current situation.
    SWOT Analysis :
  • Strengths
  • Weknesses
  • Oppotunities
  • Threats
  • They may not want to do these tasks / exercises but better to do them now whilst they have the time rather when they are out of work and are in need of new employment i.e. Hit the ground running. Good Luck to your friend .

  • Why not offer to leave with three weeks notice?
    win win as they say
    the friends gets to leave and the company saves money
  • As your friend has not been there for more than 2 years he has no statutory entitlement to redundancy pay, he would only be entitled to it if it is contractual and payable within the initial 2 year statutory period..
    The first thing I would do is find out whether or not the employer is going to pay him any redundancy if he is selected.
    If they are going to give him a redundancy payment then its obviously up to him whether or not the amount he would get is worthwhile staying the extra 3 months for. If it's not worth staying for then he hands in his notice and starts the new job.
    If he will receive redundancy pay and it is worth it to him, then he might consider speaking to the employer and making an offer to volunteer to be made redundant. It could even benefit the employer as they would have no requirement to pay him the full 3 months salary if he does not stay, and it's one person off the books immediately.
    If he has a job offer now, how he has to consider whether it is better to take that job and remain in work, or wait it out for 3 months and hope that another opportunity comes along at the time.
    Personally I'd take the job.
    How much redundancy is he looking at? As a guide the statutory amounts for those who have been employed by a company for 2 years r more are as follows:
  • half a week's pay for each full year you were under 22
  • 1 week's pay for each full year you were 22 or older, but under 41
  • 1 and half week's pay for each full year you were 41 or older
  • Length of service is capped at 20 years and weekly pay is capped at Ј464. The maximum amount of statutory redundancy pay is Ј13,920.
    OObviously this may change depending on whether his contract specifies alternative terms

  • It is the other way round, there is no laws that say a company have to pay you if you don't turn up for work(want to leave early).
    It is simple if you want to leave early then you must negotiate and expect that giving up notice pay and any redundancy payments may be one of the conditions of letting you go.
    Counter notice can be used in some cases but not relevant here as the employee would have to wait for the full contractual notice less 1 week to even use it.
    Consultation makes little difference in practice(if you want to leave) and may not even be relevant as extended 30/45 days only applies if there are significant numbers 10/100.
    If you want to leave then you are only entitled to be paid for the notice you are prepared to give.
  • Thank you for your responses.
    He is definitely being made redundant, he took the job to do work in a particular area that is no longer required. There is no work for him to do, but the company is not shutting down. He could move across to a different area but there are no vacancies there at the moment so he is twiddling his thumbs (and in any case would require some training so isn't an option for working out his notice).
    ......
    part removed to protect identity....
  • I would look at the reason behind the change in position.
    Is it because they don't have the cash to pay them off an think they have to have them work notice/garden leave to be able to pay them.
    The alternative is they terminate and make the payout in instalments
    OR
    They have realised that people will be looking and get offered work and want to leave early and it will save money.
    OR
    some other reason.
    (eg if they are trying to replace the work/contract having people ready to start may be worth the cost of having them hanging around)
    Understand the motivation is the way forward with negotiations and compromise.
    Going in with a grievance may have been a bit premature especially with the short timescales they are looking to leave.
  • That's what consultation is about it allows for things to change until the business sticks you on notice with terms, even then in redundancy situations they can withdraw the redundancy right up to the last day and remove the compensation elements.
    There is no reason they can't just let people go and pay them over the months if they want to if/and that's how the money will be available, there may be other reasons behind the change in plan that they are not getting told.
    They could also offer garden leave on terms that allow them to work elsewhere, subject to another employer being happy with it.
    How many people, how long was the consultation period if they are on notice
  • What is his contractual notice period? i.e.if he was not made redundant, but simply handed in is notice?
    If that is less than 3 months, then he can simply hand in his notice and leave.
    If he has no work to do then there is no reason for the company to be averse to letting him leave sooner rather than later.
    However, if he is expecting to be allowed to leave early but still to claim for the 3 months pay then he is being greedy and unrealistic.
    Has he actually approached them and asked whether they will agree to his leaving in 2 weeks time, and simply being paid for those 2 weeks plus any accrued holiday to the end of that 2 week period?
    If not, why not?
    it's win/win - he gets to take up the new job, has no period when he isn't working so has income throughout, and the company gets to save 2 months pay.
    As a PP said, he is not entitled to statutory redundancy pay, and on 1.5 years service would only be entitled to 1 week's pay if he was. What is his contractual entitlement to redundancy pay?
    Is it possible that the person he has spoken to has not realised that he has less than 2 years service so no entitlement to statutory redundancy pay, and is applying a guideline or internal procedure inappropriately? If so, it may be sensible for your friend to speak to the main HR department rather than his immediate manager , to try to sort this out.
  • Thanks for your comments.
    ...
  • Thinking more on how long from being first notified(must have been obvious if the work stopped) to getting written notice of termination with thework three months, then the grievance.
    Did they not discuss the various scenarios of people getting work even in the original 4 weeks, really important to cover the angles during consultation before you get to the point of trying to negotiate exits
  • Just to be clear did they give official notice to terminate with a finish date of a month with a pilon payment for the other 2 months notice?
  • Accrued unused holiday would be due but they would be generous to not have them take this ASAP if they have them on 3 months notice doing nothing.
  • I am grateful for your comments.
    I will report back on the final outcome in due course, in the mean time I have removed some of my comments at my friends request.